Brady Theater vs. The Joint

[bmuscotty]

Anyone think this will have a negative effect on the Brady? Sure would hate to see it close. Great place to see a show.

Sneak Peek At New Concert Hall At Catoosa's Hard Rock Casino

CATOOSA, OK -- The News On 6 got a sneak peek inside the final venue going up at Catoosa's Hard Rock Casino.

Crews are working on the $20 million concert hall that's being called The Joint.

It will seat 2,700, making it just a little larger than the Brady Theater.

Managers are excited to bring concerts they say will put the "rock" in Hard Rock.

"You can't have Hard Rock without music and so we feel like it is very critical to the success of the property to have a state-of-the-art event center," said David Stewart, Cherokee Entertainment CEO.

In addition to musical acts, The Joint will host boxing, MMA and guest lecturers when it opens this fall.

http://www.newson6.com/Global/story.asp?S=12424149

[Conan71]

Anyone think this will have a negative effect on the Brady? Sure would hate to see it close. Great place to see a show.

Sneak Peek At New Concert Hall At Catoosa's Hard Rock Casino

CATOOSA, OK -- The News On 6 got a sneak peek inside the final venue going up at Catoosa's Hard Rock Casino.

Crews are working on the $20 million concert hall that's being called The Joint.

It will seat 2,700, making it just a little larger than the Brady Theater.

Managers are excited to bring concerts they say will put the "rock" in Hard Rock.

"You can't have Hard Rock without music and so we feel like it is very critical to the success of the property to have a state-of-the-art event center," said David Stewart, Cherokee Entertainment CEO.

In addition to musical acts, The Joint will host boxing, MMA and guest lecturers when it opens this fall.

http://www.newson6.com/Global/story.asp?S=12424149

As a casual observer, the acts which are playing the casino circuit aren't the same ones playing the Brady, but if Hard Rock is willing to pony up more money per show, I suppose it's possible they could take some acts away from there.  There are some artists who still will choose a venue based on it being a better vibe assuming all else is equal.

[SXSW]

If OSU ever develops a fine arts/theatre program at its downtown campus, something that I think would do well and be much better suited here than Stillwater, the Brady would make a great 'home' for that.  In addition to still hosting touring concerts of course, but maybe some more stage 'theatre' as well serving as a complement to the PAC downtown.

[we vs us]

The hard thing about Hard Rock -- and this goes for the casino, the convention space, the hotel, and the golf course -- is that it's so far away from any other action.  There's just nothing else around it, and it's a long, construction-ridden drive to get to where the other stuff actually is.  It's hard to sell against that, and really, as Conan says, puts a pretty fine point on the kinds of acts that find that hospitable and those that don't.  All of which is to say, the venue that they're building is going to a certain kind of thing that appeals to a certain kind of act, and not necessarily the ones that go to the Brady.  I'd be surprised if they compete directly for the same acts.

[Conan71]

The hard thing about Hard Rock -- and this goes for the casino, the convention space, the hotel, and the golf course -- is that it's so far away from any other action.  There's just nothing else around it, and it's a long, construction-ridden drive to get to where the other stuff actually is.  It's hard to sell against that, and really, as Conan says, puts a pretty fine point on the kinds of acts that find that hospitable and those that don't.  All of which is to say, the venue that they're building is going to a certain kind of thing that appeals to a certain kind of act, and not necessarily the ones that go to the Brady.  I'd be surprised if they compete directly for the same acts.

If anything, I'd guess these would be acts who might have considered playing at the Spank out in Bixby.  Pulling up their web site though, doesn't really look like any competition, only three events between now and Aug. 14 and no concerts, sounds like someone over-estimated the need for more convention/exhibition/concert space out south. Yikes:

http://www.spiritbankeventcenter.com/events.asp?id=2

[swake]

The hard thing about Hard Rock -- and this goes for the casino, the convention space, the hotel, and the golf course -- is that it's so far away from any other action.  There's just nothing else around it, and it's a long, construction-ridden drive to get to where the other stuff actually is.  It's hard to sell against that, and really, as Conan says, puts a pretty fine point on the kinds of acts that find that hospitable and those that don't.  All of which is to say, the venue that they're building is going to a certain kind of thing that appeals to a certain kind of act, and not necessarily the ones that go to the Brady.  I'd be surprised if they compete directly for the same acts.

it probably will compete more with the "Osage Events Center" for acts.

[Townsend]

There's no contest.

The Brady beats the The Joint pants down.

[joiei]

http://www.hardrockhotel.com/las-vegas/concerts/

This is the Hard Rock Las Vegas concert listings.   Not necessarily typical Brady concerts. 

[Nik]

http://www.hardrockhotel.com/las-vegas/concerts/

This is the Hard Rock Las Vegas concert listings.   Not necessarily typical Brady concerts.  

Wow. Those are some good acts. I think they may have taken some from Cain's (Collective Soul, Dropkick Murphys, Primus, etc).

edit: Ha. Wow. Sorry, apparently I skipped over the "Las Vegas" part of the post. Oops.

[dbacks fan]

http://www.hardrockhotel.com/las-vegas/concerts/

This is the Hard Rock Las Vegas concert listings.   Not necessarily typical Brady concerts.  

I looked at this one and the Hard Rock in Biloxi, and some of the ones in Florida and I think what you will see is a rotation of acts from HR's east and west of Tulsa.

Biloxi:http://www.hardrockbiloxi.com/entertainment/hard-rock-live

Hollywood Fla.:http://www.hardrocklivehollywoodfl.com/events.php

As I look up some of the acts tour dates they all seem to be hitting alot of the casinos around the country. Indian Casinos, the Borscht Belt Tour of the new millenium.

[DowntownDan]

As a casual observer, the acts which are playing the casino circuit aren't the same ones playing the Brady, but if Hard Rock is willing to pony up more money per show, I suppose it's possible they could take some acts away from there.  There are some artists who still will choose a venue based on it being a better vibe assuming all else is equal.

This is what I believe.  I think the Brady type acts will prefer the Brady over an overcommercialized Hard Rock Venue way out of town.  I also think the Hard Rock will get more country acts that don't generally go to the Brady.  I think there is plenty of room in this town for both venues.

[DTowner]

I think it will hurt The Brady for one simply reason - money.  The Hard Rock and Million Dollar Elm can use bigger payouts to draw bands that otherwise might paly The Brady because the concerts are not used to generate a profit so much as a draw to get people into the casinos - where the tribes make the real money.  The Hard Rock also has some powerful branding that will help it draw bands.  Finally, it is one more venue chasing the limited concert going dollars available in the Tulsa market.

[Conan71]

I think it will hurt The Brady the area's sales tax base for one simply reason - money.  The Hard Rock and Million Dollar Elm can use bigger payouts to draw bands that otherwise might paly The Brady because the concerts are not used to generate a profit so much as a draw to get people into the casinos - where the tribes make the real money.  The Hard Rock also has some powerful branding that will help it draw bands.  Finally, it is one more venue chasing the limited concert going dollars available in the Tulsa market.

Yet one more vacuum for Tulsa sales tax.  Tax free meals, tax free craptastic Hard Rock merchandise, and I'm assuming tax free tickets.  Of course everyone will remember to remit their use tax on the Hard Rock merchandise, yes?  I know I complain a lot about the casinos, but I think they are bad neighbors. 

[we vs us]

I know I complain a lot about the casinos, but I think they are bad neighbors. 

A case can definitely be made for that, though in this case I really think the damage will be slight.  In my experience, Tulsa is used to thinking of itself as a small and isolated market . . . and that each new entrant will ONLY carve up what exists, rather than also bring in new things from outside and expand possible business.   I think it will be both, rather than simply the former.

[Conan71]

A case can definitely be made for that, though in this case I really think the damage will be slight.  In my experience, Tulsa is used to thinking of itself as a small and isolated market . . . and that each new entrant will ONLY carve up what exists, rather than also bring in new things from outside and expand possible business.   I think it will be both, rather than simply the former.

The problem as I see it though is Hard Rock is creating a resort where you go to spend your weekend gambling, golfing, shoppping, drinking, seeing live shows with the idea of keeping you on the property as much as possible.  I can see some merit to the idea it might draw people from outside the area like Joplin or Fayetteville who might not otherwise have been drawn to the area for a visit and they might drop some cash off property.  When citizens of Tulsa dump their discretionary income at the casino, it's less money they have to spend on taxable consumables which helps keep the city and county coffers solvent.  They do a huge marketing push in the immediate Tulsa metro.

Let's say they sell 2000 tickets for an act which might have played at the Brady or 4000 tix for a show which could have booked at the convention center.  I believe sales tax is collected on tickets at Tulsa's main venues and sales tax is also collected on merchandise, food, and beverage sales.  There's thousands of dollars the city and county just missed out on.

I realize this is all perfectly legal, but it's frustrating to see, especially in times where we have budget shortfalls affecting public safety and infrastructure and our city is incredibly impotent in becoming less dependent on sales tax.