Let's Bailout the Teachers!!!

[guido911]

I used to ask that same question myself, given that I have no children and have no desire to have children. At some point it was explained to me that education helps prevent crime and that there's a pretty strong correlation between dropout rates and crime. I did some more research and realized I was being a selfish dolt.

I don't consider myself "selfish" in the least for believing that those who utilize a particular government service, which has a private sector counterpart and option, should be responsible for paying for it. I'll tell you how I do feel, I do feel that because I believe public schools profoundly suck and want no part of it I am being punished by having to pay a ton of money for a private school education while funding public schools. What really chaps me is funding those school buses which provide nearly curbside chauffeur service for school kids.

[guido911]

Nice to see that you can be so callouse about the funding of public schools which will cut area's of need, like how many teachers there are to teach already overcrowded classrooms, while you make sure your kids are in a private school and uneffected by it. 

My kids are in private school for a reason--public schools are in large measure plain awful. In private school, I feel have more influence in curriculum, it is more structured, and believe it or not my kids' school actually believes in succeeding and not just passing off a child to the next grade. As for the rest of your post (I'm mean, your hand out demand), my point was that rather than throwing money at schools maybe some sacrifices can be made. But according to you, that's a terrible idea. We just can't have this sort of belt tightening.

[custosnox]

My kids are in private school for a reason--public schools are in large measure plain awful. In private school, I feel have more influence in curriculum, it is more structured, and believe it or not my kids' school actually believes in succeeding and not just passing off a child to the next grade. As for the rest of your post (I'm mean, your hand out demand), my point was that rather than throwing money at schools maybe some sacrifices can be made. But according to you, that's a terrible idea. We just can't have this sort of belt tightening.

Actually, I'm saying that it is pretty easy for you to demand that the schools that your kids are not in to tighten up their belts.  As far as the claims of a hand out, why don't you try getting a grip?  Do you honestly believe that you do not benifit from public schools?  Or are you so self focused that you cannot see beyond your own little world?  But then again, you also believe that you have gotten your money completely on your own, with no help from anyone everywhere.  You can claim that all you want, but any rational person will see that for the lie that it is.  So don't try to turn the fact that you expect everyone to tighten their belts when it does not DIRECTLY effect you into trying to say that I'm demanding a hand out. 

[nathanm]

I don't consider myself "selfish" in the least for believing that those who utilize a particular government service, which has a private sector counterpart and option, should be responsible for paying for it.

So basically you think kids from families that can't afford private school should be punished because you have this false notion of public schools?

Or is it that you just don't see the benefit in universal education?

[guido911]

So basically you think kids from families that can't afford private school should be punished because you have this false notion of public schools?

Or is it that you just don't see the benefit in universal education?

We are about to cross over into an already over-discussed issue in this forum:  vouchers and tax credits to allow all children access to private schools.  Give these public schools legitimate competition rather than leaving them as a government-run monopoly which breeds nothing but apathy and mediocrity. And no, my notion that public schools suck is not false. Crooked teacher unions, administrators/teachers preaching ideology (see the following links), and plain waste:

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2010-05-14/news/ct-met-highland-park-reaction-0514-20100514_1_hebson-immigration-law-highland-park-decision

http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/23212

And then there's this:

And by the way, my big gripe is not about public school curriculum, its about all the frills the public school system provides such as free transportation for students and sports/activities.

[custosnox]

And by the way, my big gripe is not about public school curriculum, its about all the frills the public school system provides such as free transportation for students and sports/activities.

the fact that you consider transportation a frill just goes to show how far off the deep end you have gone with this whole thing.  

[guido911]

the fact that you consider transportation a frill just goes to show how far off the deep end you have gone with this whole thing.  

It is a frill. Taxpayer dollars used to haul around your kids, rather than parents assuming that responsibility for themselves. Heck, I do it. My wife and I have to make it work around our schedules but we manage. Why can't the likes of you?  Oh I know why, because parents have the right to have others pay to transport their kids.

In my neighborhood, the public school bus literally stops every 100 yards to unload kids as close to their door as possible. For those kids that would have to, gulp, walk 50 feet or so to their door, there are their parents waiting in a vehicle at the bus stop. Why can't they drive their cars to the school to pick up their kids?

[waterboy]

You seem awfully young to sound so much like an old codger.

These attitudes swirl around through the ages like a never ending toilet flush. I heard them when I was in grade school back in "the good old days" when education was supposed to be good. I heard them in middle school when I delivered newspapers in an old neighborhood full of codgers that gurgled this spittle everytime I stopped long enough to listen. Then I heard it through high school and college from those who assured me my education they paid for, even though they didn't have kids, was a waste of taxpayer money. I even heard it when I applied for a job at Rooney real estate and some goon had the nerve to tell me bachelors degrees were useless and "a dime a dozen". Something in the water in this city I guess.

Its depressing to see that old codgers are getting younger and younger.

[custosnox]

It is a frill. Taxpayer dollars used to haul around your kids, rather than parents assuming that responsibility for themselves. Heck, I do it. My wife and I have to make it work around our schedules but we manage. Why can't the likes of you?  Oh I know why, because parents have the right to have others pay to transport their kids.

In my neighborhood, the public school bus literally stops every 100 yards to unload kids as close to their door as possible. For those kids that would have to, gulp, walk 50 feet or so to their door, there are their parents waiting in a vehicle at the bus stop. Why can't they drive their cars to the school to pick up their kids?

You make the assumption that everyone has a car.  That is a pretty ignorant assumption.  In many cases a family has to make due without one.  I know, a hard to believe concept for your richness, but that is the case.  In other cases it allows parents to actually work, since not everyone can have jobs that allow them to have schedules that so nicely fit with the schedule of the school like you apparently have.  Add to it that others have kids that don't all go to the same school, it makes it pretty difficult to get them all there on time without having to drop one of really early (which you would object to because then we would have to pay for someone to be there to "baby-sit" them).  Also, since you want to say it is to haul around my kids, perhaps you should reconsider that assumption.  A more accurate statement would be my kid as in singular.  I have four kids, and every one of them go to a differant school.  Only one of them rides a bus, and that is the one that goes to Thoreua.  So by your assumption, that one kid that has worked hard to get into that school should get a lesser education then she has strived for because it would not be practicle, and most likely not possible, for her to have reliable transportation to that school without a bus. 

You have shown your self-centered, egotistical hand yet again.  I really do get tired of your holier-than-thou "I'm better than you because I have more money than you" attitude.  I am very glad that those who are actually in the position to make these decisions are generally not as dellusional as you are.

--Edited just to add a sidenote that I try to stay civil in these discussions, but this is an area that effects my children.  When it comes to my chidren, I have a tendancy to bare my teeth a bit more then on other issues.

[Hoss]

You make the assumption that everyone has a car.  That is a pretty ignorant assumption.  In many cases a family has to make due without one.  I know, a hard to believe concept for your richness, but that is the case.  In other cases it allows parents to actually work, since not everyone can have jobs that allow them to have schedules that so nicely fit with the schedule of the school like you apparently have.  Add to it that others have kids that don't all go to the same school, it makes it pretty difficult to get them all there on time without having to drop one of really early (which you would object to because then we would have to pay for someone to be there to "baby-sit" them).  Also, since you want to say it is to haul around my kids, perhaps you should reconsider that assumption.  A more accurate statement would be my kid as in singular.  I have four kids, and every one of them go to a differant school.  Only one of them rides a bus, and that is the one that goes to Thoreua.  So by your assumption, that one kid that has worked hard to get into that school should get a lesser education then she has strived for because it would not be practicle, and most likely not possible, for her to have reliable transportation to that school without a bus.  

You have shown your self-centered, egotistical hand yet again.  I really do get tired of your holier-than-thou "I'm better than you because I have more money than you" attitude.  I am very glad that those who are actually in the position to make these decisions are generally not as dellusional as you are.

Something about 'considering the source' comes in play here....

[guido911]

You have shown your self-centered, egotistical hand yet again.  I really do get tired of your holier-than-thou "I'm better than you because I have more money than you" attitude.  I am very glad that those who are actually in the position to make these decisions are generally not as dellusional as you are.

This is not remotely about wealth. This is about simple fairness. Let's be honest, you think it's fair that others should be responsible for providing things to you and I do not.

[guido911]

You seem awfully young to sound so much like an old codger.

These attitudes swirl around through the ages like a never ending toilet flush. I heard them when I was in grade school back in "the good old days" when education was supposed to be good. I heard them in middle school when I delivered newspapers in an old neighborhood full of codgers that gurgled this spittle everytime I stopped long enough to listen. Then I heard it through high school and college from those who assured me my education they paid for, even though they didn't have kids, was a waste of taxpayer money. I even heard it when I applied for a job at Rooney real estate and some goon had the nerve to tell me bachelors degrees were useless and "a dime a dozen". Something in the water in this city I guess.

Its depressing to see that old codgers are getting younger and younger.

I guess I am an old codger. 

Again, my main beef is with the public school system in general (other than the frills I pointed out). It's inefficient, corrupt, and completely unfair to those kids that are unfortunately trapped in those numerous failing systems. IMO, this is because of the absence of real competition.

[pmcalk]

It is a frill. Taxpayer dollars used to haul around your kids, rather than parents assuming that responsibility for themselves. Heck, I do it. My wife and I have to make it work around our schedules but we manage. Why can't the likes of you?  Oh I know why, because parents have the right to have others pay to transport their kids.

In my neighborhood, the public school bus literally stops every 100 yards to unload kids as close to their door as possible. For those kids that would have to, gulp, walk 50 feet or so to their door, there are their parents waiting in a vehicle at the bus stop. Why can't they drive their cars to the school to pick up their kids?

You must not live in Tulsa.  TPS school buses only pick up/drop off kids at schools.  It's a pretty good system--parents drive/walk to the neighborhood school to drop off their kids.  The bus takes them the rest of the way.  Forget the kids that don't have any alternative--without buses, there would be thousands of more cars on the streets driving kids to school, polluting the air, and tearing up the roads.  The city would have to pay more to widen streets, repave, etc....  Or would you make the parents of the kids pay for the streets they drive on?

[RecycleMichael]

...this is because of the absence of real competition.

That is too simplistic.

Private schools get to pick their students. Public schools must accept and provide all the kids in their district. TPS schools do compete, it is just against each other. My son was wooed by Carver, Thoreau and Wilson Middle schools this semester.

[guido911]

You must not live in Tulsa.  TPS school buses only pick up/drop off kids at schools.  It's a pretty good system--parents drive/walk to the neighborhood school to drop off their kids.  The bus takes them the rest of the way.  Forget the kids that don't have any alternative--without buses, there would be thousands of more cars on the streets driving kids to school, polluting the air, and tearing up the roads.  The city would have to pay more to widen streets, repave, etc....  Or would you make the parents of the kids pay for the streets they drive on?

Or parents could car pool just like mine or hoof it like I used to. Do yourself a favor, next time you see a school bus, check and see how many kids are on board. I've seen huge buses pulling out of local public schools with only 10-15 kids on board. What a waste of money.

And you guessed right, I do not live in Tulsa but my kids' school is.