Let's Bailout the Teachers!!!

[guido911]

That is too simplistic.

Private schools get to pick their students. Public schools must accept and provide all the kids in their district. TPS schools do compete, it is just against each other. My son was wooed by Carver, Thoreau and Wilson Middle schools this semester.

First, congrats on your child's achievement. Your should be (and I am sure) proud. To your point, I know my position is a bit simplistic given the voluminous number of complicating factors at play. Still RM, I strongly believe that competition breeds innovation and quality. You disagree?

[Red Arrow]

The difference I see in traffic going to work when school is out vs. when school is in session makes me want to make every parent that chauffeurs little Suzi or Johnnie to school  subject to a special toll at the school driveway.  The reason the buses are nearly empty is because mom or dad are driving too many kids to and from school.

[guido911]

The difference I see in traffic going to work when school is out vs. when school is in session makes me want to make every parent that chauffeurs little Suzi or Johnnie to school  subject to a special toll at the school driveway.  The reason the buses are nearly empty is because mom or dad are driving too many kids to and from school.

You an old codger too? 

[RecycleMichael]

 Still RM, I strongly believe that competition breeds innovation and quality. You disagree?

I completely agree. I just believe that public and private schools can't be easily compared. Private schools are great choices for those who can afford it and want their child to be surrounded by other children who are the same economic class or the same religion. Public schools offer all types of classmates, both good and bad.

My wife and I really want our children in the public system, but would probably opt for private if we didn't feel our child had good teachers and a safe school. We were lucky to get into the best public elementary and blessed to have the time to be involved in our school as well.

Tulsa Public School District has many of the top schools in the state. Unfortunately, it also has some of the worst.

[Red Arrow]

You an old codger too? 

When I was born, rocks were here but we were still working on dirt.  Well, at least compared to the age of some on TNF.

The demise of the neighborhood school caused a lot of busing.  That's probably best for another thread.  When I was in elementary school, we were expected to walk or ride a bicycle up to a certain distance that I don't remember.  Having to cross a major highway was another reason for the little kids to ride the bus. I was never more that about a mile from elementary, middle, or high school so I didn't ride the bus. There was one exception.  In 6th grade, we were on split sessions until the middle school construction was done.  I rode the bus for a while after daylight savings reverted to standard time and it was dark when it was time to go home.  I'll admit I hated the bus.  It took twice as long to get home.  Since the school and my house were almost next to the (real) trolley, I convinced my parents to let me take the trolley.

[guido911]

Tulsa Public School District has many of the top schools in the state. Unfortunately, it also has some of the worst.

And, unfortunately, that's where I get lost (fairly or unfairly) sometimes when this issue arises.  In private schools, like I wrote earlier, you just feel like you have some control over what is being taught to your kids.

[nathanm]

In private schools, like I wrote earlier, you just feel like you have some control over what is being taught to your kids.

You also have control over what is taught in public schools. Pay attention to the school board elections, eh?

[guido911]

You also have control over what is taught in public schools. Pay attention to the school board elections, eh?

Elections? Why bother when I can go to a meeting where curriculum is discussed. You can do tons better Nate.

[RecycleMichael]

Pay attention to the school board elections, eh?

I watched the elections in February pretty closely this year.  

I just want to add that I don't expect the school to educate my child. We discuss everything as a family and my kids love science, reading and history as I did as a child. We spent some time in the pool tonight discussing private property rights in a discussion of our trashy neighbor. The kids had good opinions about our rights as neighbors and society as compared to the rights of the property owner.

My daughter has a 2nd grade teacher who not only e-mails me her homework assignments, but has made my daughter love going to class. As proud I am of coaching my 5th grade son to be a chess champion, it was a teacher at school who convinced him to come home and ask me to teach him the game.

[custosnox]

I watched the elections in February pretty closely this year. 

I just want to add that I don't expect the school to educate my child. We discuss everything as a family and my kids love science, reading and history as I did as a child. We spent some time in the pool tonight discussing private property rights in a discussion of our trashy neighbor. The kids had good opinions about our rights as neighbors and society as compared to the rights of the property owner.

My daughter has a 2nd grade teacher who not only e-mails me her homework assignments, but has made my daughter love going to class. As proud I am of coaching my 5th grade son to be a chess champion, it was a teacher at school who convinced him to come home and ask me to teach him the game.

I don't think enough parents take the time to teach their children beyond what the schools do.  Personally, I can't pass up an opertunity to do so.  In fact, I sent the kids back to their mom's tonight with copies of the bill of rights.  Told them that I expected them all to read them before coming back because we are going to have an in depth discussion on them so that they have a better understanding of what it means to be free.

[waterboy]

When I was born, rocks were here but we were still working on dirt.  Well, at least compared to the age of some on TNF.

The demise of the neighborhood school caused a lot of busing.  That's probably best for another thread.  When I was in elementary school, we were expected to walk or ride a bicycle up to a certain distance that I don't remember.  Having to cross a major highway was another reason for the little kids to ride the bus. I was never more that about a mile from elementary, middle, or high school so I didn't ride the bus. There was one exception.  In 6th grade, we were on split sessions until the middle school construction was done.  I rode the bus for a while after daylight savings reverted to standard time and it was dark when it was time to go home.  I'll admit I hated the bus.  It took twice as long to get home.  Since the school and my house were almost next to the (real) trolley, I convinced my parents to let me take the trolley.

I worked on the dirt.

I walked to school, or rode my bike, till I hit high school and a MTTA bus was available to take me downtown. Grade school was about a mile and a half. It was fun and an education in itself. Then I stepped off a curb at 6th and Lewis and was literally run over by a woman who ran a red light. I rolled under the car. The firemen at the station on that corner pulled me out, dusted me off and all the parties involved sent me on to school with grease and rubber marks on my white shirt. A bus would have been a good idea for 2nd graders in retrospect. But we didn't have them in Tulsa for one reason or another.

The fifties were great eh Red?

[Conan71]

I worked on the dirt.

I walked to school, or rode my bike, till I hit high school and a MTTA bus was available to take me downtown. Grade school was about a mile and a half. It was fun and an education in itself. Then I stepped off a curb at 6th and Lewis and was literally run over by a woman who ran a red light. I rolled under the car. The firemen at the station on that corner pulled me out, dusted me off and all the parties involved sent me on to school with grease and rubber marks on my white shirt. A bus would have been a good idea for 2nd graders in retrospect. But we didn't have them in Tulsa for one reason or another.

The fifties were great eh Red?

I don't really understand the heartburn Guido has about the buses.  It's a matter of safety, less congestion, practicality, and making sure with varied schedules that kids can get to school and their parents can hold down a job.

I lived on Delaware between 25th & 26th and went to Barnard at 17th & Lewis from 2nd through 5th grade (mid '70's) that was about 1 1/2 miles.  My brother and I walked or rode our bikes most days.  If the weather was pretty crappy, we could take an MTTA which came up 26th between Harvard & Lewis and went north on Lewis from there or trudge through the rain.  I also used to take an MTTA to the downtown library after school.

When we moved to the Jenks district in 1977, everything was on the central campus at 1st & B in Jenks.  We lived near 81st & Yale.  Mom & my stepdad both worked at the RSC campus (Williams complex which is now part of Warren Clinic) at 66th & Yale.  I had three options available: Walk or ride my bike 6 miles to school with traffic on two lane roads, or one of my parents having to make a 12 mile round trip, drop my brother and I off at least 1/2 hour before school, then fight traffic (on mostly two lane roads) back to 66th & Yale by 8am.  If anyone still remembers Yale and 71st when they were two lane, you know what a truckload of suck that intersection was.  Our bus route was the Brookwood I addition and the bus rarely had an empty seat.

I can assure you, I would have never afforded my two daughters the same freedom I had when they were elementary school age.  Too many creeps out there these days. 

[guido911]

I don't really understand the heartburn Guido has about the buses.  It's a matter of safety, less congestion, practicality, and making sure with varied schedules that kids can get to school and their parents can hold down a job.

Go through my previous posts to see where I am coming from. Still, it's okay if I am alone in trying to find a way to save taxpayer money on buses.  Here's a thought, how about people in this thread throw out ideas on cutting education expenses rather than throwing more money at it.

[rwarn17588]

Go through my previous posts to see where I am coming from. Still, it's okay if I am alone in trying to find a way to save taxpayer money on buses.  Here's a thought, how about people in this thread throw out ideas on cutting education expenses rather than throwing more money at it.

OK ... I'll bite.

One thing that we can cut is the number of administrators. Regional superintendents are pretty much worthless, and just about any teacher in TPS can tell you that the main office in midtown is a soul-suck of bureaucracy and busywork.

[Conan71]

Go through my previous posts to see where I am coming from. Still, it's okay if I am alone in trying to find a way to save taxpayer money on buses.  Here's a thought, how about people in this thread throw out ideas on cutting education expenses rather than throwing more money at it.

Guido, if kids were riding the bus a mile or less to school, I'd have more a problem with it.  I believe the majority ride the bus much further.  I simply think you are being harsh with the implication that lazy parents are free-loading on the school system by sending their kids to school on a bus.  How many full time good jobs will allow for someone to come in at 8:30 after dropping kids off at a few school sites and leave at 2:45 every day to start the task of rounding up the kids?  None.  It allows parents to be more productive.  I understand why transportation would be an easy target for cuts, I just don't think you've thought through carefully who it is that actually rides the bus. 

For proper disclosure, my kids never rode a bus when they went to private or public schools (Jenks- large far-flung suburban district).  We always lived close enough, and fortunately my ex and I had pretty good flexibility in schedules so there wasn't really a need.  I realize not every family has that luxury.

With magnet schools and far-flung suburban systems, it serves a valuable purpose to the kids and families.  Just because it fits your own schedule and lifestyle to take your kids to school, it doesn't mean it fits for everyone else.  Personally, I think admin costs are one place we should be looking at for cuts as well as facility costs.  I don't believe in cutting out sports as I think they serve a valuable purpose in the overall scholastic experience.  In fact, they are even a requirement at one or more of the prominent private schools in the Tulsa metro.

FAIK, Bishop Kelley still has a bus service and Holland Hall used to.