Honda Accord 2011 vs Toyota Camry 2011

[nathanm]

You honestly believe that driving a gas-guzzler 400 Merc is going to save you in the long run what driving say a Prius that same amount is?  In gas costs along?

Wow.  For someone who professes to be along in age, you're certainly naive.

The principle is sound, though. For a 2000-3000 in work, you can replace an early 90s Honda's engine (and ball joints and a couple of other things that tend to go bad on them after 200k) with a late 90s VTEC engine and get twice the HP with the same gas mileage. As long as the body's good, you will be driving for a couple hundred thousand miles for that money.

Of course, you'd still be driving around a car significantly less safe in a crash than anything built recently, but it would be relatively inexpensive but very sound mechanically.

I'm probably going to end up buying a car in the next year or two. It'll be nice to have been able to skip the death bags in the early to mid-90s vehicles. Early airbags were required to restrain an unbelted person and didn't have multiple levels of inflation speed. And they nearly all used propellants that, under some conditions, can cause blindness. I wouldn't be so opposed to having a post-2000 airbag equipped car.

[Red Arrow]

You honestly believe that driving a gas-guzzler 400 Merc is going to save you in the long run what driving say a Prius that same amount is?  In gas costs along?

Wow.  For someone who professes to be along in age, you're certainly naive.

Depends a lot on how many miles you drive and the price of gas.

[Hoss]

Depends a lot on how many miles you drive and the price of gas.

OK, maybe I should clarify.

Do you think that driving a 400 Merc on today's gas prices would get you the same distance on a finite gas budget that a Prius or even any newer car made since 2000?

You guys seriously crack me up.

[Red Arrow]

OK, maybe I should clarify.

Do you think that driving a 400 Merc on today's gas prices would get you the same distance on a finite gas budget that a Prius or even any newer car made since 2000?

You guys seriously crack me up.

Seriously, you are smarter than "gas budget".  Think transportation budget.  That includes insurance, gas, maintenance, cost of a new car vs. a car that is probably paid for. 

[Hoss]

Seriously, you are smarter than "gas budget".  Think transportation budget.  That includes insurance, gas, maintenance, cost of a new car vs. a car that is probably paid for.  

Alright, I concede.  Keep your Merc and grumble/gripe about why you're having to spend 150 a month in gas as opposed to that guy (me) who is spending about 75.

My point is, how often will you have to maintain the vehicle?  What is your time worth if you do it yourself (I used to)?  It got to the point where I was spending more time working on older vehicles then actually driving them.  So this last was was my first new one.  Guess what?  I'm glad to have the payment if I can spend it as long as I don't worry from week to week whether or not I'm going to have to meander down to O'Reilly's to get a carb kit or fuel pump or water pump and then spend the next three hours working on it.

I bet over time, the difference in gas costs alone (probably in one year) is enough to offset the difference in making a payment and the difference between insurances costs.  I know for a fact it's worth my time and effort.

But feel free to point it out even further.  You and the stinky cabbage can stay rooted in the 60s.

Me?  The only sixties car I want is that first GTO I had.  That'll be a weekender.

[Red Arrow]

Alright, I concede.  Keep your Merc and grumble/gripe about why you're having to spend 150 a month in gas as opposed to that guy (me) who is spending about 75.

My point is, how often will you have to maintain the vehicle?  What is your time worth if you do it yourself (I used to)?  It got to the point where I was spending more time working on older vehicles then actually driving them.  So this last was was my first new one.  Guess what?  I'm glad to have the payment if I can spend it as long as I don't worry from week to week whether or not I'm going to have to meander down to O'Reilly's to get a carb kit or fuel pump or water pump and then spend the next three hours working on it.

I bet over time, the difference in gas costs alone (probably in one year) is enough to offset the difference in making a payment and the difference between insurances costs.  I know for a fact it's worth my time and effort.

But feel free to point it out even further.  You and the stinky cabbage can stay rooted in the 60s.

Me?  The only sixties car I want is that first GTO I had.  That'll be a weekender.

I will readily concede that at some point an older car is a pain in the butt. Depending on your capabilities to fix it yourself vs. paying $100/ hr it may be worth buying a new car just to not mess with dealing with the maintenance.  I drive 100 mi/week to work and back. One of my co-workers drives less than that including grocery shopping etc.  If you need me to, I'll do some arithmetic but figuring around $20,000 or more for a new car every 5 or 6 years is not cheap either.

My first car was a 66 Buick Skylark GS, roughly the same as a GTO. I'd like to have that back too as a weekend car in spite of its 12 mpg city and 15 mpg highway. The fact that the steering column was a lance to the thorax during a headon and the single brake cylinder etc were not any where near as safe as today's cheapest cars is irrelevant.

What I'd really like for a weekend car is a GSX.  I think 72 was the last good year, maybe 71.

[Hoss]

I will readily concede that at some point an older car is a pain in the butt. Depending on your capabilities to fix it yourself vs. paying $100/ hr it may be worth buying a new car just to not mess with dealing with the maintenance.  I drive 100 mi/week to work and back. One of my co-workers drives less than that including grocery shopping etc.  If you need me to, I'll do some arithmetic but figuring around $20,000 or more for a new car every 5 or 6 years is not cheap either.

My first car was a 66 Buick Skylark GS, roughly the same as a GTO. I'd like to have that back too as a weekend car in spite of its 12 mpg city and 15 mpg highway. The fact that the steering column was a lance to the thorax during a headon and the single brake cylinder etc were not any where near as safe as today's cheapest cars is irrelevant.

What I'd really like for a weekend car is a GSX.  I think 72 was the last good year, maybe 71.

Don't get me wrong.  I loved working on cars when I was younger.  As I got older, those cars got older and became more costly to maintain.  Then, when all the computers started being the norm, it really became a pain in the rear and made it so you had to have tools and equipment that cost 1/3 of your annual salary just to work on them.  Couldn't justify it.

The car I have now has a lifetime powertrain warranty.  Plus when I purchased it I had a slew of discounts and got the additional warranty coverage that covers wiring, etc for 6 years.  So if I have any problems, I should be ok.

I'm not a high mileage driver (about 8500 miles a year average) so I'm not real hard on cars.

[bugo]

Alright, I concede.  Keep your Merc and grumble/gripe about why you're having to spend 150 a month in gas as opposed to that guy (me) who is spending about 75.

And his Merc will ride like it's floating on clouds.  And he would be riding in style, not looking like a dork in a Prius.  There are intangible benefits to driving an older car that can't be mimicked by a late model car.

[nathanm]

And his Merc will ride like it's floating on clouds.  And he would be riding in style, not looking like a dork in a Prius.  There are intangible benefits to driving an older car that can't be mimicked by a late model car.

I think you can figure out for yourself who the dork is:

[Hoss]

I think you can figure out for yourself who the dork is:

Yep, the 'not-dead' dork.

[nathanm]

I should also ask what those intangible benefits are? Would that be worse handling and braking? Or the awful suspension straight out of the 50s on my SO's Explorer that makes it nearly impossible to drive down dirt roads at speed? I always love driving straight down a road then suddenly finding myself pointing perpendicular to the normal direction of travel after driving over a washboarded area. It is nice to get a little practice at controlling a vehicle in a slide, but I'd rather have a vehicle that doesn't do that in the first place.

I'm sorry, I like the style of a lot of older cars, but they're pieces of junk and deathtraps by modern standards (as are modern vehicles still using the old tech). There's a reason driving fatalities dropped while miles driven increased over the last 40-50 years. In addition to better seat belt compliance, proper crush zones and better designed interiors significantly reduce the severity of injuries sustained in auto crashes.

[Red Arrow]

There's a reason driving fatalities dropped while miles driven increased over the last 40-50 years.

It certainly is not better drivers.

[Red Arrow]

And his Merc will ride like it's floating on clouds. 

Not what I want in an automobile.  A boat maybe, but not an automobile.

[nathanm]

Not what I want in an automobile.  A boat maybe, but not an automobile.

That sort of thing is nice if you're using the car specifically only for long distance highway travel. Better for that are cars like recent Cadillacs that handle reasonably well through curves yet still insulate you from the road when you're cruising down the highway at 75. Feeling every expansion joint in the road gets old once you're into your 8th hour of driving for the day.

[Red Arrow]

That sort of thing is nice if you're using the car specifically only for long distance highway travel. Better for that are cars like recent Cadillacs that handle reasonably well through curves yet still insulate you from the road when you're cruising down the highway at 75. Feeling every expansion joint in the road gets old once you're into your 8th hour of driving for the day.

I agree that I don't want to feel the expansion joints and have frequently said so.   I also don't want to hear a loud exhaust system for hours on end.  Floaty is not what I want even for a long distance drive.  I have a 1995 (E34) BMW 540i.  Early in its career, I returned from a trip to Ohio, interrupted by a stop in St. Louis. When I got home, I almost immediately went on a short excursion to Nowata.  No problem.   Float and isolation are not the answer.  Stiff as a buckboard is also not the answer.

Edit:
I might as well add:
My first car was a 66 Buick Skylark GS (400).  I have to admit to not driving it more than 20 hours (with my brother) from Philly to here.  It was not a floater but it was a good highway car. I also did several solo 2 day drives from the east coast (Philly or Va Beach, Va) to Bixby after the 55 mph speed limit. That's a bunch of hours. The next car I drove long distance was a 81 Buick Skylark Sport Coupe, also not a floater. My brother and I drove it from Albuquerque (towing a trailer) to Minden NV, non stop.  We got about 6 hours rest and returned to Albuquerque.  I wouldn't want to do that in a floater.