Illegals Leaving Arizona

[Cats Cats Cats]

I like the fact that there has to be some sort of major fear mongering with every "Republican" stance.  You don't have to be a total doucher about everything sheesh. 
1) People are here illegally
2) There are people trying to actual legally immigrate (not fair to them)
3) They DO cost for government services, schooling in particular
4) A crap load of the money made leaves the US (not even taxed with sales tax)
5) They probably aren't paying income taxes (although, their income might be in the more money than you pay bracket)
6) If you don't have health insurance just go to the emergency room because they have to see you.'
7) All the "violent people" and the coyotes holding hostages, wouldn't be an issue if they couldn't get here in the first place.

[Conan71]

I like the fact that there has to be some sort of major fear mongering with every "Republican" stance.  You don't have to be a total doucher about everything sheesh. 
1) People are here illegally
2) There are people trying to actual legally immigrate (not fair to them)
3) They DO cost for government services, schooling in particular
4) A crap load of the money made leaves the US (not even taxed with sales tax)
5) They probably aren't paying income taxes (although, their income might be in the more money than you pay bracket)
6) If you don't have health insurance just go to the emergency room because they have to see you.'
7) All the "violent people" and the coyotes holding hostages, wouldn't be an issue if they couldn't get here in the first place.

You don't see that with Democrat initiatives and pet causes as well?  Global warming, er "climate change", health care, banking reform, etc. ad nauseum? 

It's all about creating fear by GOP & Dem politicians to make government intervention in every facet of our lives seem essential, that's how they retain power.

[azbadpuppy]

I like the fact that there has to be some sort of major fear mongering with every "Republican" stance.  You don't have to be a total doucher about everything sheesh. 
1) People are here illegally
2) There are people trying to actual legally immigrate (not fair to them)
3) They DO cost for government services, schooling in particular
4) A crap load of the money made leaves the US (not even taxed with sales tax)
5) They probably aren't paying income taxes (although, their income might be in the more money than you pay bracket)
6) If you don't have health insurance just go to the emergency room because they have to see you.'
7) All the "violent people" and the coyotes holding hostages, wouldn't be an issue if they couldn't get here in the first place.

Just watch the ads running right now in AZ for McCain and Brewer, etc. They are hilarious in their "OMG! We are being overtaken by the brown people and we will all die if we don't vote for them" message. That is fear mongering. I didn't make it up- it's a tactic the candidates, campaign managers and taking heads have been using for years. It apparently works very well for those who play into the 'fear'.

The FACT is that crime is down- WAY down in all areas and in all categories across the entire state of Arizona. What the GOP is trying to sell is fear, plain and simple. John McCain and Jan Brewer etc trying to say that our "border situation and crime in the state is spiraling out of control" is simply a lie, and not only is it a lie, it is intended to induce fear to promote their own agenda and to justify why SB 1070 is needed.

The OP made a remark about violent crime being directly related to the illegal immigrants- not whether those pepople are paying taxes or not (although most are). 
 

[azbadpuppy]

You don't see that with Democrat initiatives and pet causes as well?  Global warming, er "climate change", health care, banking reform, etc. ad nauseum? 

It's all about creating fear by GOP & Dem politicians to make government intervention in every facet of our lives seem essential, that's how they retain power.

I never said it doesn't happen with both sides- but again that's not what we are talking about in this thread. It is painfully obvious that the GOP is flat out lying about crime and its direct relation to the need for their passing SB 1070, and the use of fear mongering to convince all of us.

[azbadpuppy]

7) All the "violent people" and the coyotes holding hostages, wouldn't be an issue if they couldn't get here in the first place.

But that is just it. SB 1070 does absolutely nothing to actually secure our borders, or keep anyone from entering- violent criminal or not.

The intention of SB 1070 is to detain and question persons already living in the US, and to establish if that person is a legal resident. Do you really think violent criminals give a s**t if they have proper documentation? Do you really think this is a deterrent for the drug runners and human smugglers to stay on their own side of the fence?  They will still be doing their thing, on both sides of the border, regardless of SB 1070.

No, what SB 1070 mainly does is target non-violent residents of the US once they are already here. IMO it's nothing but a political ploy in an election year, and smoke-screens the real issue of actually securing the border and curbing drug violence.

[Cats Cats Cats]

But that is just it. SB 1070 does absolutely nothing to actually secure our borders, or keep anyone from entering- violent criminal or not.

The intention of SB 1070 is to detain and question persons already living in the US, and to establish if that person is a legal resident. Do you really think violent criminals give a s**t if they have proper documentation? Do you really think this is a deterrent for the drug runners and human smugglers to stay on their own side of the fence?  They will still be doing their thing, on both sides of the border, regardless of SB 1070.

No, what SB 1070 mainly does is target non-violent residents of the US once they are already here. IMO it's nothing but a political ploy in an election year, and smoke-screens the real issue of actually securing the border and curbing drug violence.

Once you cross the border you are "already here".  Do I think it will deter human smugglers?  No, but if people don't want to pay money to come here because they know they will be shipped back.  Then they will have less people to victimize.

[Cats Cats Cats]

Just watch the ads running right now in AZ for McCain and Brewer, etc. They are hilarious in their "OMG! We are being overtaken by the brown people and we will all die if we don't vote for them" message. That is fear mongering. I didn't make it up- it's a tactic the candidates, campaign managers and taking heads have been using for years. It apparently works very well for those who play into the 'fear'.

The FACT is that crime is down- WAY down in all areas and in all categories across the entire state of Arizona. What the GOP is trying to sell is fear, plain and simple. John McCain and Jan Brewer etc trying to say that our "border situation and crime in the state is spiraling out of control" is simply a lie, and not only is it a lie, it is intended to induce fear to promote their own agenda and to justify why SB 1070 is needed.

The OP made a remark about violent crime being directly related to the illegal immigrants- not whether those pepople are paying taxes or not (although most are). 
 

Sales tax helps, but isn't income tax, etc.  How does being illegal change home ownership for property tax to pay for schools?  What about federal income tax (like I said before though, they might get paid back more than they paid in, so we might want to avoid that).

[Gaspar]

The intention of SB 1070 is to detain and question persons already living in the US, and to establish if that person is a legal resident. Do you really think violent criminals give a s**t if they have proper documentation? Do you really think this is a deterrent for the drug runners and human smugglers to stay on their own side of the fence?  They will still be doing their thing, on both sides of the border, regardless of SB 1070.

That's not correct.  The intention of SB 1070 is to enforce existing law.  Nothing more.

It provides no new provisions with the exception of giving local law enforcement the ability to refer suspects to federal authority.  You are using the same talking points as the people that proudly claim "I haven't read the bill," but still want to give an opinion on it.

That would be kind of like me giving you my opinion on a restaurant without eating there. 

[heironymouspasparagus]

I read it.
The whole discussion (especially talk radio) misses the whole point.  Doesn't matter what that talking points are, or whether new points are inserted or not.  The state is still trying to do what the Fed, under the Constitution reserves unto itself.  As defined IN said Constitution and various cases since.  Remember how much of Oklahoma's law is still in effect after a court test?

[azbadpuppy]

That's not correct.  The intention of SB 1070 is to enforce existing law.  Nothing more.

And that is not correct. The law didn't exist on a state level. It was never a state crime to be in the country illegally....until now.

I have read the entire bill, a couple of times actually- but nice try.

[azbadpuppy]

I read it.
The whole discussion (especially talk radio) misses the whole point.  Doesn't matter what that talking points are, or whether new points are inserted or not.  The state is still trying to do what the Fed, under the Constitution reserves unto itself.  As defined IN said Constitution and various cases since.  Remember how much of Oklahoma's law is still in effect after a court test?

That's what I have been saying all along. It will eventually be struck down by the Feds anyway you look at it.

[guido911]

That's what I have been saying all along. It will eventually be struck down by the Feds anyway you look at it.

Not so fast on the striking down of the law, says Brewer:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/06/02/brewer-says-shes-ready-potential-federal-court-challenge-immigration-law/

[Gaspar]

And that is not correct. The law didn't exist on a state level. It was never a state crime to be in the country illegally....until now.

I have read the entire bill, a couple of times actually- but nice try.

Glad you've read it.  Here's a few questions:

What can any Arizona law enforcement official do under the Arizona immigration law that a federal law enforcement official cannot already do?

What requirement does the Arizona law place on any non-citizen living in Arizona that federal law does already not place on any non-citizen living elsewhere in the United States?

Do Arizona law enforcement officials have the ability to determine the residency status of any individual independent of federal investigation?

Do Arizona law enforcement have the jurisdiction to deport anyone?

[azbadpuppy]

Glad you've read it.  Here's a few questions:

What can any Arizona law enforcement official do under the Arizona immigration law that a federal law enforcement official cannot already do?

What requirement does the Arizona law place on any non-citizen living in Arizona that federal law does already not place on any non-citizen living elsewhere in the United States?

Do Arizona law enforcement officials have the ability to determine the residency status of any individual independent of federal investigation?

Do Arizona law enforcement have the jurisdiction to deport anyone?

Nothing, none, no and no.

I don't have an issue with how the law (now amended) is written. I think the motivations of the authors of the bill are suspect, and I believe that ultimately it will do nothing to curb violent crime or help secure the borders.

What it will do is allow local authorities to harrass and detain residents based on 'reasonable suspicion', to attempt to criminalize otherwise hardworking and law abiding people, when really, local law enforcement should be focusing their already limited resources on true offenders of the law.

I am all for the feds stepping it up. Obviously something needs to happen. This isn't it though.

[azbadpuppy]

Not so fast on the striking down of the law, says Brewer:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/06/02/brewer-says-shes-ready-potential-federal-court-challenge-immigration-law/

That lovely bit of journalism only mentions potential legal issues regarding racial profiling and civil rights violations. We can leave that part to the marchers outside the capitol to rail against.

The real issue is the Federal law preemption and violation of the constitution thingy.

http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/conlaw/2010/04/arizonas-immigration-law-supremacy-and-federal-preemption.html