Israel v. The Middle East

[guido911]

Things are getting ugly fast over there.

http://hotair.com/archives/2010/05/31/bloody-clash-off-gaza-coast-leaves-10-dead/

The site is conservative leaning, but there are videos, stories and analysis that I found informative.

[heironymouspasparagus]

What does that mean --  "conservative leaning" ??

Reading that certainly left me with the impression of an apologist attempt to rationalize what is by definition piracy;  taking a ship or plane away from the control of those who are legally entitled to it.  (And in international waters, no less.  Remember the USS Liberty?? And all the espionage cases??)

They are not just now getting ugly...they have been getting ugly since the 1920's when Jewish 'interests' were attacking British and Palestinian interests in Palestine.  And the Arabs were attacking British at the same time.  What is the definition of "freedom fighter"??  What is the definition of "terrorist"??

I don't have any particular interest one way or the other, but the propaganda in this country is incredible in its bias.  Couple of facts for some possible balance...maybe??  (And no, I don't believe that the creation of Israel was the prelude to the end times.  By definition - again - no man shall know the hour or time of His coming...etc, etc.)

Since 1967 the Israeli's have ignored 223 UN resolutions.  Iraq ignored about 60, yet we went to war with them.
Since 1948, depending on who is actually doing the estimates, it is said that there have been anywhere from 65,000 to about 2 million Palestinians killed in the 'troubles' (had to throw a little Irish reference in there.)

Israel has lost about 2500 since 1920 - their estimate.  See next.

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchive/2000_2009/2000/1/Terrorism%20deaths%20in%20Israel%20-%201920-1999


Ever since childhood, I can remember hearing about shootings, killings, bombings where 1, 2 or 20 or 30 Israeli's were killed.  And the followup attacks on Palestinians killed 100, 300, 1500.

I realize the Palestinians lost.  But they sure don't seem to have accepted it even in the face of massive comparative losses.  At what point between the 65,000 and 2 million would the bar of genocide be exceeded??  (My personal opinion is that somewhere around 1 million, we are definitely talking genocide, but then I have also known people who think that 100,000 would qualify.  It's a judgement call I guess...)

[Red Arrow]

I realize the Palestinians lost.  But they sure don't seem to have accepted it even in the face of massive comparative losses.

I believe that is part of their culture.  Difficult for us "Western" culture folks to understand.

[guido911]

I believe that is part of their culture.  Difficult for us "Western" culture folks to understand.

It's always...da jooooooos!

[heironymouspasparagus]

Ah, yes... part of their culture.  You mean the culture that drives them to have their homes back?

Kind of like every Indian tribe in North America?  You remember from history who "massacred" George Armstrong Custer... and who fought from the time there were about 15 million until about 1900 when there were about 300,000 left?  Or the Cherokee who are still fighting back against the white devils by sticking it to them with casinos?

Or Irish freedom fighters/terrorists who have fought since early 1600's against their occupation and the attempts to exterminate them?

Yeah, I guess maybe it is part of their culture.  Isn't it part of yours??  It certainly would be mine!

[HoneySuckle]

The Israeli leader "Nuthead" as I call him was quite wise not to meet with Obama in face of what they, the Israelis did with those ships.

Heck is wrong with these people? 

[Red Arrow]

Ah, yes... part of their culture.  You mean the culture that drives them to have their homes back?

No, I was thinking of the part of the culture that makes them unable to forgive and try to live in the present.  The part of the culture that appears to make peace impossible at any price.  Notice I did NOT say they should forget the past.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Except for the fact that Israel is still building (invading) on land that Israel itself has determined to be part of the final agreement - whatever that is. 

So, by that argument, we should just try to live in the present where there are 20 million illegals from south of the border that have reclaimed territory that was for hundreds of years, theirs anyway, and from whom the US government conducted an illegal war of conquest to take it from them...

Or the Irish should just lay down and take the fact that the English are still an invasion force into their nation and have conducted for over 400 years - until the most recent of modern times - a war and public policy of extermination and all around general genocide?  They shouldn't be trying to change today's reality at all, huh?

If that is so, then the same idea must apply to the idea of abortion.  The law has been settled for about 40 years.  I can't understand why people would still be even arguing about it - just forgive, accept it and live in the present.

That sentiment right there is the source for the concept of the idea that those who don't know the past are doomed to repeat it.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Here is what an Israeli officer said;

"We did not expect such resistance from the group's activists as we were talking about a humanitarian aid group," one unnamed naval lieutenant told Israel's Army Radio.

"The outcome was different to what we thought, but I must say that this was mainly because of the inappropriate behavior of the adversary we encountered."


I guess it would be considered inappropriate to try to defend oneself when a military invasion force is committing an act of piracy on the high seas (international waters).  Yeah...that's it...that's the ticket....inappropriate.

Can you spell "S-O-M-A-L-I-A"??  As in pirates?

Hey, just another massacre and confiscation of property (the ships) and illegal detaining of civilians.  Same ol', same ol'....

[guido911]

Here is what an Israeli officer said;

"We did not expect such resistance from the group's activists as we were talking about a humanitarian aid group," one unnamed naval lieutenant told Israel's Army Radio.

"The outcome was different to what we thought, but I must say that this was mainly because of the inappropriate behavior of the adversary we encountered."


I guess it would be considered inappropriate to try to defend oneself when a military invasion force is committing an act of piracy on the high seas (international waters).  Yeah...that's it...that's the ticket....inappropriate.

Can you spell "S-O-M-A-L-I-A"??  As in pirates?

Hey, just another massacre and confiscation of property (the ships) and illegal detaining of civilians.  Same ol', same ol'....

Helen Thomas channeling her inner heironymouspasparagus:
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/helen-thomas-rails-at-robert-gibbs-over-white-house-stance-on-israeli-flotilla-attack/
Sorry for the graphic imagery.

[we vs us]

Whether they did the correct thing (attacking a ship trying to run their blockade), the Israelis are on the crap end of the PR stick here.  There's virtually no way you can kill peaceful protesters and come away smelling like a rose -- whether they are armed with sticks and rocks or not. 

[guido911]

Whether they did the correct thing (attacking a ship trying to run their blockade), the Israelis are on the crap end of the PR stick here.  There's virtually no way you can kill peaceful protesters and come away smelling like a rose -- whether they are armed with sticks and rocks or not. 

They are and will always be considered the aggressor.  Oh, here is what was found aboard the "peaceful protesters" boat:

[Red Arrow]

Except for the fact that Israel is still building (invading) on land that Israel itself has determined to be part of the final agreement - whatever that is. 

So, by that argument, we should just try to live in the present where there are 20 million illegals from south of the border that have reclaimed territory that was for hundreds of years, theirs anyway, and from whom the US government conducted an illegal war of conquest to take it from them...

Or the Irish should just lay down and take the fact that the English are still an invasion force into their nation and have conducted for over 400 years - until the most recent of modern times - a war and public policy of extermination and all around general genocide?  They shouldn't be trying to change today's reality at all, huh?

If that is so, then the same idea must apply to the idea of abortion.  The law has been settled for about 40 years.  I can't understand why people would still be even arguing about it - just forgive, accept it and live in the present.

That sentiment right there is the source for the concept of the idea that those who don't know the past are doomed to repeat it.

How far back do you want to go?  When is time zero?  Should the Native American tribes be conducting war on all caucasians?   Real war, not casino building.  Should the Alaskan natives be slaughtering the current residents of Alaska. (No stupid comments about Sarah Palin please.)  What about the Hispanics?  Should the descendants of the South American Natives  be killing all the mixed breeds?  Should the descendants of the Saxons be driving the Normans back to France?  I don't remember right now if the Anglos were in the British Isles before the Saxons but I think so. Which ever was first should kill all the descendants of the other. Here's a biggie, should the Europeans drive the Muslims back to the middle east (again).  Actually, the Muslims drove others from the middle east and around the Mediterranian  since Islam didn't get started until around 700 AD (or whatever the politically correct term is now) so they definitely weren't much of anywhere first. (Christianity has had its less than savory moments too.) Shouldn't the descendants of whoever was there first be trying to get rid of the current occupiers?  Are you trying to start another Crusades?

Your attitude of teaching hate through the centuries is why we are doomed to repeat war after war.

[Hoss]

... (No stupid comments about Sarah Palin please.)...

Please don't hate me Red...

"Stupid is as stupid does"....

Couldn't resist it!

[nathanm]

Your attitude of teaching hate through the centuries is why we are doomed to repeat war after war.

I don't think Israel's oppression of the Palestinians has been going on for centuries. It's going on today.

I'm not an Israel hater by any means, but I still think what they're doing in Gaza is beyond deplorable.