Hudson Villas on 11th and Hudson

[Townsend]

Good or bad idea for the area?

http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story/Meeting-To-Discuss-Low-Income-Housing-Complex/EVSl2t8zqESGOm1zIJLfow.cspx?rss=77

A meeting is scheduled tonight to discuss the possibility of a low-income apartment complext moving into the 11th and Hudson area.

The Tulsa Day Center of the Homeless is behind the project. A spokesperson says this is not a shelter, and the Day Center is not moving.

It will be called the Hudson Villas. It will sit on a 6-acre piece of land and will house 60 units. The apartment complex will be created to give those who want to leave the shelter, a place to make that transition and live independently.

Those who live at the Hudson Villas will pay rent and they will have rules. The apartment complex will also be gated.

Still, there are neighbors who don't want this in their backyard, saying they're concerned about crime moving in along with the housing complex.


Tonight's meeting is hosted by City Councilor Maria Barnes and will address those concerns. It starts at 6:30 tonight at City Hall Chambers inside City Hall, located at 2nd and Cincinnati.
Tulsa police say a similiar housing project opened up near I-244 and Yale back in January and crime actually dropped in that area since then.

Construction on the project is scheduled for late this year. It should be finished by mid 2012.

[Hoss]

Good or bad idea for the area?

http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story/Meeting-To-Discuss-Low-Income-Housing-Complex/EVSl2t8zqESGOm1zIJLfow.cspx?rss=77

Interesting...

Looks like, based on the size they indicate of the piece of land, that it will be built here:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=11th+%26+Hudson,+Tulsa,+OK&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=47.080837,79.013672&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=E+11th+St+%26+S+Hudson+Ave,+Tulsa,+Oklahoma+74112&ll=36.149199,-95.912275&spn=0.00295,0.004823&t=h&z=18

[Conan71]

From Townsend's link:

"Tulsa police say a similiar housing project opened up near I-244 and Yale back in January and crime actually dropped in that area since then."

It doesn't help that the Tulsa World has been running the series on Section 8 housing recently.  There seems to be a common conception that crime will follow low income housing and I can't say it's far off base.  However, seeing this is a 60 unit complex and not a 200 to 300 unit welfare warehouse, I think there's less room for immediate concern.

I have heard and read that there will be a tight screening process, but the property could change hands down the road to a landlord who has less of a watchful eye and that's when trouble can start.  I understand the fear the neighbors have of such a facility in their backyard, so what's the solution?  If we continue to consign low-income housing in close proximity to other pockets of low income or out into the country, then you either continue the cycle of crime and poverty or you wind up moving people away from public transportation which will help them get to work and back.

It's a tough quandry, what are some options?

[TheArtist]

Have every residential development, (neighborhood, apartment complex, mid-rise, high-rise, etc.) be required to have a small percentage of their residences be for low income housing.

Everyone in the community is impacted by and shares the responsibility equally.  

If all the new apartment complexes and neighborhoods we have seen even in just the last couple years had divided up the number of new low income housing units,,, the number of residences in each would have been negligible. We ALL pay for this stuff anyway.

[guido911]

Have every residential development, (neighborhood, apartment complex, mid-rise, high-rise, etc.) be required to have a small percentage of their residences be for low income housing.

Everyone in the community is impacted by and shares the responsibility equally.  

Shares the responsibility?  What does that mean?

[TheArtist]

Shares the responsibility?  What does that mean?

The responsibility of those who are more fortunate to help out those who may need help.  Responsibility, like its your responsibility as a citizen to vote.  With great freedom comes great responsibility.  One could say that the more responsible one, or a society, is the greater their freedoms will be.

[Conan71]

The responsibility of helping out those who often need the most help.

[Townsend]

mmmm,  canned Gagh

[Conan71]

The responsibility of those who are more fortunate to help out those who may need help.  Responsibility, like its your responsibility as a citizen to vote.  With great freedom comes great responsibility.  One could say that the more responsible one, or a society, is the greater their freedoms will be.

Interesting to note though that when Ruth Kaiser Nelson chose to help out with low income housing, she didn't elect to do that in her own neighborhood.  She led the effort to build it at Admiral & Yale.  The wealthy in Tulsa don't seem to want to have low income housing in their neighborhoods, so how do you force that upon people who don't want low income in their midst?

[swake]

Interesting to note though that when Ruth Kaiser Nelson chose to help out with low income housing, she didn't elect to do that in her own neighborhood.  She led the effort to build it at Admiral & Yale.  The wealthy in Tulsa don't seem to want to have low income housing in their neighborhoods, so how do you force that upon people who don't want low income in their midst?

You do what Europe does, build the low income housing out in the middle of nowhere outside the city and use public transit to link the development to the city.

[sgrizzle]

Interesting to note though that when Ruth Kaiser Nelson chose to help out with low income housing, she didn't elect to do that in her own neighborhood.  She led the effort to build it at Admiral & Yale.  The wealthy in Tulsa don't seem to want to have low income housing in their neighborhoods, so how do you force that upon people who don't want low income in their midst?

They also don't elect to drive an '83 Escort or eat at Arby's. Why would you build low-income housing on a $500,000 lot when you could build it on a $50,000 lot? To make a few politicos happy?

How can people complain about the two projects being so close together then go to another post and complain about how far away the BOK Center is?

I've been bitter about this "low income housing" phobia for 15 years, ever since people in the neighborhood I was in started calling city councilors and passing petitions when word came around that a "low income housing project" was being build about 1/4 mile from our houses. The nicest people I've met became angry and hateful and talked about "moving away before their housing values plummeted." There was class-ism and racism abounding. It all fell silent once construction began on the... SENIOR housing center.

I've said it a dozen times. YIMBY. Build one of these near me. If it's cost feasible to build near where I am, DO IT.

[Rico]

You do what Europe does, build the low income housing out in the middle of nowhere outside the city and use public transit to link the development to the city.

Aye Swake hate to break it to you.... But 11th and Hudson is out in the middle of nowhere..
That is unless your a car lot.

[custosnox]

mmmm,  canned Gagh

ghuy' tlhIngan

[DTowner]

If I lived in this neighborhood my concern would be less with the two projects individually on the merits, but more about whether this second project is an indication of future clustering of such projects in my neighborhood.  If you have two, is the response to a new proposal going to be "hey, you've already got two low income projects, what's a third going to hurt"?

Whatever the cause and effect between low income housing/crime/property values, etc, it is well documented that large amounts of low income or subsidized housing in a concentrated area does not help a neighborhood prosper. 

[YoungTulsan]

The article I read stated the cost of the project at $6 million for 60 units.  That comes out to $100k per living unit.  Now, I'm no expert in the apartment complex construction business, and perhaps that is actually a cheap price per unit for new construction, but couldn't you get more bang for your buck by buying up existing properties that are for sale, foreclosed, abandoned, etc. for much cheaper?  There are tons of homes in this city you could buy up for $50k a pop, I guarantee.