TU and University Blvd.

[Gold]

Ds has no idea what he is talking about on crime.  Having spent a lot of time their over seven years, there was a significant problem with property crime.  Campus crime watch isn't scientific.  There is a reason TU did so much to create a buffer to the west with the athletics facilities and then modified the parking lots to the north.  I had so many friends who had cars broken into or in a couple of cases apartments.

My sense is that folks like to find reason to bag on TU.  It's funny since it's really an anchor for keeping propety values up in the area and it does so much for the area (Kendall Whittier).  I'll never forget Mstr. Bates' defense of a head shop.  Deviant behavior, indeed.

In the end, the fence means nothing.  The area across 11th street is a hodgepodge of fast food, gas stations, and payday loans.  What are we worried about TU distancing
itself from?

TU brings more value to the community than a lot of things.  I think many people lose site of the big picture.

[nathanm]

In the end, the fence means nothing.  The area across 11th street is a hodgepodge of fast food, gas stations, and payday loans.

Fast food, a couple of good restaurants/bars, one gas station. Ain't nothing wrong with Renaissance aside from the noisy and littering college kids. I still prefer that to a gated community.

And obviously you're no college kid. I think there might be two people of that age who would consider it a good thing to be fenced off from Taco Bell.

Edited to add: That's not to say I have anything against TU except their isolationism. I like it being there and I like my neighborhood. I only wish I could buy the awesome house on the west side of College between 11th and 12th.

[Red Arrow]

Fast food, a couple of good restaurants/bars, one gas station. Ain't nothing wrong with Renaissance aside from the noisy and littering college kids. I still prefer that to a gated community.

And obviously you're no college kid. I think there might be two people of that age who would consider it a good thing to be fenced off from Taco Bell.

Edited to add: That's not to say I have anything against TU except their isolationism. I like it being there and I like my neighborhood. I only wish I could buy the awesome house on the west side of College between 11th and 12th.

Which one?  I saw a couple interesting ones on Street View.

[Gold]

Fast food, a couple of good restaurants/bars, one gas station. Ain't nothing wrong with Renaissance aside from the noisy and littering college kids. I still prefer that to a gated community.

And obviously you're no college kid. I think there might be two people of that age who would consider it a good thing to be fenced off from Taco Bell.

Edited to add: That's not to say I have anything against TU except their isolationism. I like it being there and I like my neighborhood. I only wish I could buy the awesome house on the west side of College between 11th and 12th.

I don't follow your point at all.  We are talking urban aesthetic; that's not taco bell.

Some days I hear TU is trying to take over the neighborhood and at other times it's isolationist.  To me it seems like it's all that keeps that area from decaying and there's nothing else to talk about.  I'm reminded of the Flaubert line about envying and loathing aristocracy.

I don't think TU is isolationist at all.  It's a fence, not the Berlin Wall.  No one was walking over that way before.  Nothing to see here, move along.

[SXSW]

Renaissance is a jewel of a neighborhood.  TU has been a big part of that, as well as it being a place for people who want a midtown address but can't afford Brookside or Maple Ridge.  If there was more of an urban commercial strip by TU, as opposed to what is there now, I could see Renaissance being even more desirable.  TU could go a long way toward improving that whole area by building two new apartment buildings actually fronting 11th and working to make that stretch more urban.  The ball is in TU's court.  It certainly wouldn't hurt them recruit new students.  

[Renaissance]

Dude, TU claimed it was building a front door to 11th and then turned its back on the street with its suburban-style apartment developments.  TU's 11th St. development = FAIL.  No one denies this.

[nathanm]

No one was walking over that way before.  Nothing to see here, move along.

No one but the college kids who want to go to the fast food restaurants and QuikTrip and the slow food restaurants and the folks parking in my neighborhood to go to events at TU.

You're right that it's not a particularly urban stretch. TU's fence will only perpetuate that, as it's made it much more convenient to use a car since one has to walk halfway across campus to get to the gate and halfway back to a destination.

[Conan71]

Edited to add: That's not to say I have anything against TU except their isolationism. I like it being there and I like my neighborhood. I only wish I could buy the awesome house on the west side of College between 11th and 12th.

The art deco'ish house?  I finally met the occupant last year on the Lortondale home tour.  It's the ultimate money pit, apparently.  I've admired it for years too.  I've lived between 14th & 15th on Gary Pl. and would go past that house all the time going to QT and wondered what it was like inside.

[nathanm]

The art deco'ish house?  I finally met the occupant last year on the Lortondale home tour.  It's the ultimate money pit, apparently.  I've admired it for years too.  I've lived between 14th & 15th on Gary Pl. and would go past that house all the time going to QT and wondered what it was like inside.

Given its condition, I could see how it would be a money pit. It's not terrible or anything, but it's not something I would describe as "well kept," either. Looks awesome, though. Yet another thing to do with my lottery winnings the day I happen to pick up a winning ticket on the street.

[SXSW]

Dude, TU claimed it was building a front door to 11th and then turned its back on the street with its suburban-style apartment developments.  TU's 11th St. development = FAIL.  No one denies this.

True but a simple gesture like taking down the fence along 11th and building two new apartment buildings up to the sidewalk could go a long way towards changing that.  Also allowing on-street parallel parking on the westbound side of 11th to calm traffic.  Eventually do the eastbound side if you can get rid of some of the surface parking along 11th.  Any kind of streetscape improvements should start at TU and work their way west toward downtown.

That new oval is a nice space, but it needs something on its south side instead of Arby's and its parking lot.  More student housing, a small hotel, or urban apartments would be a nice bookend on the southside of 11th.

[dsjeffries]

Ds has no idea what he is talking about on crime.  Having spent a lot of time their over seven years, there was a significant problem with property crime.  Campus crime watch isn't scientific ... I had so many friends who had cars broken into or in a couple of cases apartments.

Actually, Gold, I lived there for over five years and I do know what I'm talking about. What, statistics from TU Security aren't enough for you? Anecdotal information is subjective. Maybe you personally had experiences with cars being broken into, but that doesn't mean that was representative of the whole campus. That's your personal experience. If I were to make assumptions about the whole campus based on my own experiences and the experiences of my friends, I'd be forced to believe that there was absolutely no crime.

There is a reason TU did so much to create a buffer to the west with the athletics facilities and then modified the parking lots to the north.

Yes, it's called decades of poor planning and decision making by TU administrators and Trustees. As I discussed earlier, TU created the problem area to the west of campus and now, instead of trying to fix it, they've elected to erect fences and turn away from it. It will fix itself, right? If anything, the construction of the fence has proven that it was a worthless endeavor and they need to try a new approach.

The fence keeps students from easy access to certain parts of campus, while not keeping anyone--including would-be criminals--out. For a fence to truly work the way TU wanted it to (turning campus into a secured compound), they would have to completely block access and place guard stations at each entrance. There are open gates in places that are useless, and then there are gates in residential areas that keep residents from simply walking across the street. Pedestrian access is greatly reduced, and I can give you some anecdotal examples if you'd like them.

My sense is that folks like to find reason to bag on TU.  It's funny since it's really an anchor for keeping propety values up in the area and it does so much for the area (Kendall Whittier).  I'll never forget Mstr. Bates' defense of a head shop.  Deviant behavior, indeed.

No one is looking for reasons to complain about TU. They're there, in plain sight. Has the value of the new facilities increased property values in the area? Maybe in the short term. But property values alone do not a neighborhood make. Take a look at the integrity and continuity of the neighborhood. TU has completely cut itself off from the surrounding neighborhood, isolating itself in a cocoon of righteousness, literally tearing down homes and connector streets to put up walls, fences, gates, and parking lots. Those are the kinds of things that destroy a neighborhood, not help build it up.

In the end, the fence means nothing.  The area across 11th street is a hodgepodge of fast food, gas stations, and payday loans.  What are we worried about TU distancing itself from?

So, because the businesses along the street aren't up-to-par with TU's pristine new image, they should cut off all connection with them? A majority of those businesses serve TU students, faculty, staff and visitors. They directly benefit the University by providing their services, but TU has decided to cut off all access except via a car, and has even limited vehicular access to campus. As a former TU apartment dweller, I can tell you that it's much harder to get to any business on 11th street by foot now. Before the fence, I could walk directly across the street to get a pizza, or a burrito, or catch the bus. After the fence went up, I was surrounded on three sides by fences and had to walk quite far out of my way to make it to the new "front door" on 11th Street, and back-track to do anything.

TU brings more value to the community than a lot of things.  I think many people lose site of the big picture.

They do create a lot of value for the community, but that does not mean that they get a carte blanche when it comes to bullying and subsequently destroying its surrounding neighborhoods. I think they'd find a much more vibrant, active, safe scene in the neighborhood if they stopped using sticks and instead used carrots.

[dsjeffries]

Dude, TU claimed it was building a front door to 11th and then turned its back on the street with its suburban-style apartment developments.  TU's 11th St. development = FAIL.  No one denies this.

+1

[Cats Cats Cats]

Dude, TU claimed it was building a front door to 11th and then turned its back on the street with its suburban-style apartment developments.  TU's 11th St. development = FAIL.  No one denies this.

I know right, they should have built a mazzios or a QT on the other side so it matched!

[TURobY]

Actually, Gold, I lived there for over five years and I do know what I'm talking about. What, statistics from TU Security aren't enough for you?

I lived there too; and statistics from TU Security aren't enough. That's why I mentioned in the first post that the number of breakins, thefts, etc. reported by TU Security were grossly understated. Now, many of those incidents may have never been reported to campus security (mainly because most people understand that there isn't much that security could do after-the-fact), but that does not negate the fact that break-ins were getting out of control.

[dsjeffries]

I lived there too; and statistics from TU Security aren't enough. That's why I mentioned in the first post that the number of breakins, thefts, etc. reported by TU Security were grossly understated. Now, many of those incidents may have never been reported to campus security (mainly because most people understand that there isn't much that security could do after-the-fact), but that does not negate the fact that break-ins were getting out of control.

They might not have every single incident, but I think it's pretty close. Arbitrarily saying that numbers reported by TU Security are "grossly understated" is just another subjective view-- I mean, how do you know that incidents are "grossly understated"? Was a student survey done relating to crime that indicated that students weren't reporting things? Was there some big exposé in the Collegian? Is there something I'm missing? It just seems like people are making too many assumptions based on two things: 1) their own perceptions, and 2) their own experiences; and then extrapolating that on the whole campus.

I'm not saying that there aren't any more crimes that go unreported--but we can't just make unsubstantiated claims, either. And no matter how many incidents there were, have been or are, the point that I previously made is that the fence has made no significant impact on the number of reported crimes on campus. And security was the number one reason the administration kept touting as a reason for the fence.