TW & TPD Perpetuate Lighting Myths

[custosnox]

Which works great until someone else comes along and doesn't see you... 

I do also find the full moon to be plenty of light to see, though. I don't get people's obsession with streetlights. Even interchange lighting on expressways can make it hard to see past the end of the lit area. On surface streets, corner lighting just makes for midblock blind spots.

I just said headlights.  I keep the marker lights on.  Of course, I turn the headlights back on when I see other headlights anyhow.  Not that I find myself out on open stretches of road, away from city lights, on a cloudless night with a full moon very often.

[patric]

Now only a few days later, and someone dies on an expressway right underneath a working streetlight, and no uninformed comments from "authorities" about how that light would have saved his life...

[Hoss]

Now only a few days later, and someone dies on an expressway right underneath a working streetlight, and no uninformed comments from "authorities" about how that light would have saved his life...

apples/oranges Patric.

Occupant killed in this accident.

Pedestrian (well, someone pushing a vehicle) killed in the other.

[dbacks fan]

I enlarged the pic from KTUL and if you notice there is no front tire on the left side.



This may have happened before or after, but seeing almost a bare wheel I would tend to think a blowout caused the accident and nothing to do with overhead lighting.

[Conan71]

Or considering it was 2:20 am it's plausible he might have been drinking prior to the crash.

[Townsend]

Or considering it was 2:20 am it's plausible he might have been drinking prior to the crash.

And drawn like a moth to the one lit highway light.

[dbacks fan]

Or considering it was 2:20 am it's plausible he might have been drinking prior to the crash.

No disagreement from me. It could very well be a combination of tire failure, speed, driver impairment, and from the update on TW his head hit the barrier which resulted in death whic may indicated his was not wearing a seatbelt which allowed the upper portion of his body to go through the window of the truck.

[patric]

apples/oranges Patric.
Occupant killed in this accident.
Pedestrian (well, someone pushing a vehicle) killed in the other.

I see your point, but I also know it's summer and people will be either walking down or crossing expressways under the lights with greater frequency, and loose their lives because they thought the lights would make it easier for 65mph expressway traffic to avoid them.  It wont get the media play it would have if it occurred on a darkened expressway because it doesnt validate the fear-mongers.   

I'd like to see the city council get an earnest study of crashes and auto-peds, comparing daylight, lighted and un-lit conditions, so they could see firsthand if a knee-jerk reaction of just turning on everything is either a good investment or in the best safety interests of Tulsans.
Then I'd like to have them get Public Works on the ball and correct the bad wiring that's supposed to separate the interchanges and ramps (which should be lit) from the straightaways (which should not be lit), so that the lights we do turn on are actually the ones we need.

[Hoss]

I see your point, but I also know it's summer and people will be either walking down or crossing expressways under the lights with greater frequency, and loose their lives because they thought the lights would make it easier for 65mph expressway traffic to avoid them.  It wont get the media play it would have if it occurred on a darkened expressway because it doesnt validate the fear-mongers.   

I'd like to see the city council get an earnest study of crashes and auto-peds, comparing daylight, lighted and un-lit conditions, so they could see firsthand if a knee-jerk reaction of just turning on everything is either a good investment or in the best safety interests of Tulsans.
Then I'd like to have them get Public Works on the ball and correct the bad wiring that's supposed to separate the interchanges and ramps (which should be lit) from the straightaways (which should not be lit), so that the lights we do turn on are actually the ones we need.

Not saying I disagree with you Patric...all I was saying is that you can't compare the two incidents to make your point valid.  If it had been a drunk jogging in the IDL...sure.

[cannon_fodder]

Fwiw, my sister lives in los ranchos (town sorrounded by albuquerque), the town banned street lights... its fantastic.   

[waterboy]

Wasn't that more about light pollution in the desert sky than safety?

[patric]

Wasn't that more about light pollution in the desert sky than safety?

I think your right, but it further busted the myth that streetlights were necessary for safety.
...and while something like that might be appropriate for some areas of Tulsa, it isnt for others.
Downtown would be a real drag without the ability to see, and well-planned lighting adds a lot to better utilization of public areas.

While some areas you would never dream of having dark, it seems no amount of lighting is going to "fix" places like 61st and Peoria.  Reducing the glare might benefit the watchfulness of neighbors and police, though...

[everelusive]

I think that all driving at night should be outlawed.  Just think, if no one drove at night no one could ever die in a nocturnal car crash!  Think of the lives that would be saved!  Or better yet, no driving, at all, ever, for anyone.  Traffic deaths would plummet and everyone would be so safe.  The criminals would stick out like a sore thumb because they would be the only ones on the road, mabey then the police could actually PREVENT crime.  I feel safer just thinking about it.   

[Red Arrow]

I think that all driving at night should be outlawed.  Just think, if no one drove at night no one could ever die in a nocturnal car crash!  Think of the lives that would be saved!  Or better yet, no driving, at all, ever, for anyone.  Traffic deaths would plummet and everyone would be so safe.  The criminals would stick out like a sore thumb because they would be the only ones on the road, mabey then the police could actually PREVENT crime.  I feel safer just thinking about it.   

And, since most accidents happen at home, we could prevent people from going home.  Think of the injuries we could prevent.

[patric]

I think one of the biggest problems Patric has with the lighting systems is that often it is considered "better" then nothing, even when the lighting can create a more limited field of view if not properly done (what is in the light can be seen, but if it is outside of the light your screwed).  More is not always better. 

It would be interesting, a year later, to look at the numbers now, and compare them to the periods with lights on vs lights off.
...cause you know accidents on expressways were eliminated as soon as the lights came back on 

The accident figures didnt show any difference with the lights off, but it was unwarranted public fears that prevailed nevertheless. 

At least someone at the TW had a sensible view:
http://www.tulsaworld.com/opinion/article.aspx?subjectid=61&articleid=20091101_213_G1_During741655&archive=yes