Unemployment Rate Drops! But There's A Catch...

[Gaspar]

Can you imagine the outrage.  Can you imagine what would happen if this administration even suggested that people, on any from of government assistance, lift a finger?

I wish we were in a position to do something like this, but this nation has moved on.  I know many talented unemployed people who would be happy to put in a few hours a week bettering their community, but I also know many who would absolutely freak out at the idea of being "forced" to work.

We've slouched forward. We are the entitled.

[heironymouspasparagus]

You are lucky.  It sucks.  And anyone who says people are going out on unemployment just to enjoy the time off are just way beyond ignorant.  


Having said that - there really is no valid unemployment in this country as long as this offer is being made.  It is just laziness and an unwillingness to do what is necessary to earn a living to support one's family.  There are plenty of jobs here available for literally ANY ONE who wants to step up and take it.  With complete training supplied by skilled people actually working in the industry.  And a job placement program that virtually guarantees a job.

http://takeourjobs.org/


But you gotta lift a finger to help yourself...

As far as doing something productive while unemployed - well there is nothing stopping anyone from going to volunteer with the Salvation Army, Tulsa Food Bank, or any one of probably about 30 million other help organizations around the area.  Just gotta be willing to lift a finger...
(Plus it IS a great networking opportunity, if approached properly.)

[we vs us]

So Roosevelt's WPA (and his other Alphabet Soup agencies) did an interesting thing . . . they didn't just throw everybody on flatbed trucks, ship them out into the hinterlands, put shovels in their hands and put them to work building Yosemite.  They were a little more fine-grained than that, and had not only labor crews, but photographers, writers, playwrights, actors, artists, accountants, engineers, etc etc all being paid to do their particular job for the government.  Aside from parks and highways, the Depression-era agencies also produced a lot of pivotal art (especially photography, which traveled particularly well). 

The crucial part about this is that people could easily be slotted back into their vocation when the Depression eased.  An engineer in the pay of the WPA could easily be hired again by a private company. A photographer could be hired by a magazine or newspaper.  If we're suggesting that a modern day IT guy be tossed on the back of the flatbed truck and handed a shovel, not only are we going to have a pissed off IT guy but we'll have a shoddily built state park.

Far better to have the IT guy be hired by the government.  The gov gets necessary IT services while the IT guy gets to stay in practice, and stays ready to join the private labor force when it starts hiring again.

[heironymouspasparagus]

The CCA did pretty much exactly that...put people on a truck, gave them a shovel or hammer and said start digging or pounding.

And they built all the national park facilities we get to enjoy today, plus most of the state parks, and many local parks.

In addition to all the Alphabet Soup stuff.

They even had that farm worker program in California and elsewhere that was showcased so well in "Grapes of Wrath".

[Conan71]

So Roosevelt's WPA (and his other Alphabet Soup agencies) did an interesting thing . . . they didn't just throw everybody on flatbed trucks, ship them out into the hinterlands, put shovels in their hands and put them to work building Yosemite.  They were a little more fine-grained than that, and had not only labor crews, but photographers, writers, playwrights, actors, artists, accountants, engineers, etc etc all being paid to do their particular job for the government.  Aside from parks and highways, the Depression-era agencies also produced a lot of pivotal art (especially photography, which traveled particularly well). 

The crucial part about this is that people could easily be slotted back into their vocation when the Depression eased.  An engineer in the pay of the WPA could easily be hired again by a private company. A photographer could be hired by a magazine or newspaper.  If we're suggesting that a modern day IT guy be tossed on the back of the flatbed truck and handed a shovel, not only are we going to have a pissed off IT guy but we'll have a shoddily built state park.

Far better to have the IT guy be hired by the government.  The gov gets necessary IT services while the IT guy gets to stay in practice, and stays ready to join the private labor force when it starts hiring again.

The government could very easily parcel out non-sensitive IT projects like web sites for national parks, etc.

When I was younger I used to see more of the WPA placards around town and could remember where they were.  As I recall, it seems like Crow Creek stream bank stabilization was but one example of a great WPA project which has lasted for years (though it's crumbling in places now) and something makes me think that Swan Lake (nee Orcutt) had some tie to WPA.  One huge difference I see between the programs that FDR started as a good response to the Depression and what we try and do today is back then, the Gov't demanded some sort of productivity in return for a check, and now we simply hand out the benefits and expect little, if anything, in return.

One problem we have with government though is administrative costs are so high for every program they dream up.  People who try and point to systems such as Medicare as being paragons of government efficiency are living in a dream world.  The federal government is a bloated victim of it's own rules and regulations and creates many unecessary positions to oversee compliance.

[nathanm]

Really, Nathan's idea is nothing new.  It's essentially what Roosevelt's WPA did in the 1930's utilizing hard-core unemployed people and it left a great legacy of infrastructure. 
...
I'd say one in 8 or 10 actually wants a job, they just want to show they are still looking for work.

I consider myself quite fortunate I've never had to depend on UE benefits and hope I never have to. 

Yeah, it's not new at all. Unfortunately, the Glenn Beck listeners of the world consider such ideas "SOCIALIZUM!!!"

And to be honest, if I'd been out of work for a year, I'd probably seem like a pretty discouraged job seeker, too.

[Gaspar]

Yeah, it's not new at all. Unfortunately, the Glenn Beck listeners of the world consider such ideas "SOCIALIZUM!!!"

I don't think so.  It's not socialism where choice exists.  People can either choose to provide services to the community in exchange for extended unemployment benefits or they can choose not to receive the benefits.

Basically it's the government providing short term employment opportunities, experience, and in some cases training.  The worker wins, the community wins, and the government can reduce costs on some services.

[bokworker]

Oped from WSJ today concerning the debate over unemployment benefits...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704862404575351301788376276.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_sections_opinion

[nathanm]

I don't think so.  It's not socialism where choice exists.  People can either choose to provide services to the community in exchange for extended unemployment benefits or they can choose not to receive the benefits.

Basically it's the government providing short term employment opportunities, experience, and in some cases training.  The worker wins, the community wins, and the government can reduce costs on some services.

I agree with you, but given that the stimulus got the label, despite mainly doing a very similar thing, I don't think Cato and Heritage, nor the Tea Partiers would agree.

[Gaspar]

I agree with you, but given that the stimulus got the label, despite mainly doing a very similar thing, I don't think Cato and Heritage, nor the Tea Partiers would agree.

The stimulus was never labeled socialism.  The stimulus was a pile of spending that had languished in the bottom drawer of Obey's desk for over 20 years.  It was a simple example of the house taking advantage of a crisis to get things passed that they would otherwise never be able to. Now we get to live with the result.

Obamacare is what gets the label.  With the appointment of the new Rationing Czar Dr. Donald Berwick, the president has solidified his intent to evolve the Obamacare system into a centrally run social system.

Berwick said it himself "competition is a major reason for our duplicative, supply-driven, fragmented care system."  He also claims that he WILL ration healthcare. "The decision is not whether or not we will ration care — the decision is whether we will ration with our eyes open."  Even before the silly Tea-partier notion of Death Panels he said "we must reduce the use of unwanted and ineffective medical procedures at the end of life."  He was the reason the Right brought up the notion of Death Panels like Great Britons.  Who knew he would end up being chosen for the job? 

No the Stimulus bill was not Socialism, it was just stupid.  The Obamacare bill is Socialism, there's no way now to argue that it's not.

[nathanm]

The stimulus was never labeled socialism.

Glenn Beck disagrees:

America, let's call a spade a spade: This package isn't meant to stimulate the economy, it's meant to reshape it.

If President Obama, Nancy Pelosi and the rest of the progressives really believe that socialism is the best way out of this mess and the best way forward for America, then make the case. Let's debate it and allow the American people to decide.

Also, I'm surprised you call $288 billion in tax cuts "stupid." I guess it's just stupid when the other guy does it?

Regarding the health care bill, it's about as far from socialism as it could possibly be. And it's essentially Lincoln Chafee's plan from 1993. That's right, an essentially Republican plan. But keep saying Obama is a socialist. If you repeat it enough and wish hard enough, it might actually become the truth.

If they had managed to get the public option through, it wouldn't be such an outlandish claim.

Oh, and we do ration health care right now. Today. With money. That's what capitalism does, it rations things using the free market. When prices go up due to higher demand or lower supply, the price increases, which reduces demand (for most things). The rationing thing is a complete canard.

[Gaspar]

Glenn Beck disagrees:
Also, I'm surprised you call $288 billion in tax cuts "stupid." I guess it's just stupid when the other guy does it?

Regarding the health care bill, it's about as far from socialism as it could possibly be. And it's essentially Lincoln Chafee's plan from 1993. That's right, an essentially Republican plan. But keep saying Obama is a socialist. If you repeat it enough and wish hard enough, it might actually become the truth.

If they had managed to get the public option through, it wouldn't be such an outlandish claim.

Oh, and we do ration health care right now. Today. With money. That's what capitalism does, it rations things using the free market. When prices go up due to higher demand or lower supply, the price increases, which reduces demand (for most things). The rationing thing is a complete canard.

LOL. . . Sorry, I'm not much of a Beck (except for the beer) man, so I guess I disagree with him too.  As for the token tax cuts in the bill they are stupid when you figure that the entire cost of the bill with debt service is around 3.2 Trillion dollars.  This is not including the continued support necessary for the programs, bureaucracy, and projects that the bill is supposed to create.

No matter how you slice it, you cannot stimulate the economy (private industry) by growing government.  The shovels for the "shovel-ready-jobs" cost ten times as much when the government buys them.

[nathanm]

LOL. . . Sorry, I'm not much of a Beck (except for the beer) man, so I guess I disagree with him too.  As for the token tax cuts in the bill they are stupid when you figure that the entire cost of the bill with debt service is around 3.2 Trillion dollars.  This is not including the continued support necessary for the programs, bureaucracy, and projects that the bill is supposed to create.

No matter how you slice it, you cannot stimulate the economy (private industry) by growing government.  The shovels for the "shovel-ready-jobs" cost ten times as much when the government buys them.

Uh, the government pays private contractors to do the work, thus growing the private sector (at least temporarily). It's not like all the stimulus jobs are actually people on the government payroll.

As far as the tax cuts being token, it is/was over a third of the total bill.

Edited to add: I also don't see any new programs. I may have missed something, but it looks like it all goes to existing departments mostly to do things they already do.

[Gaspar]

Uh, the government pays private contractors to do the work, thus growing the private sector (at least temporarily). It's not like all the stimulus jobs are actually people on the government payroll.

As far as the tax cuts being token, it is/was over a third of the total bill.

Edited to add: I also don't see any new programs. I may have missed something, but it looks like it all goes to existing departments mostly to do things they already do.

Yes, you may have missed something. 

After School Feeding Program $726million       
Broadband Inventory*--Broadband Data and Deployment Grants Program $350million       
Wireless and Broadband Deployment Grants Program $2.825billion       
NSF Advanced Research Facilities Modernization Grants Program $200million       
Waste Energy Recovery Incentive Program $500million       
Grants to Institutions for Energy Sustainability and Efficiency Program $1billion       
Energy Efficiency and Conservation Block Grants Program $3.5billion       
Transportation Electrification (EISA 2007 sec. 131) Program $200million       
Alternative Fueled Vehicles Pilot Grant Program $400million       
Advanced Battery Manufacturing Grants Program $1billion     
Advanced Battery Loan Guarantee Program $1billion     
Electricity Delivery and Energy Reliability (Smart Grid) Program $4.5billion   
Institutional Loan Guarantee Program $500million
DOE Energy Innovative Technology Research Program $8billion   
Energy Advanced Research Project Agency Program $400million       
Subsidies for SBA Direct and Guaranteed Loans Program $426million       
Federal Government Vehicle Fleet Replacement Program $600million       
Washington, D.C. National Mall Revitalization Program $200million       
Green Jobs, Health Care and Emerging Industry Training Grants Program $750million       
Youth Summer Jobs Program Grants Program $1.2billion     
Preventative Wellness Trust Program $3billion     
Grants to replace State reductions in school funding  Program $39billion   
Bonuses for Local Schools meeting required education goals Program $15billion   
Grants to to replace State reductions in local government services Program $25billion     
Impact Aid School Construction Program $100million       
Charter School Construction Program $25million         
School Construction for K-12 Program $14billion     
School Construction for Higher Education Institutions Program $6billion     
Health Information Technology Program $2billion     
Comparative Effectiveness Research Program $1.1billion   
Energy Retrofit Grants for Elderly, Disablity and Sec. 8 Housing Program $2.5billion     
Neighborhood stabilization grants for Non-profits Program $750million

[heironymouspasparagus]

Oh, pullleeeezzzeeee.... token tax cuts??  $288 billion??

I want some of what you are smoking!!  That is some good S***, with a capital S!!  (And it ain't no bar-b-que smoke!!)
That was/is the biggest single tax cut for actual taxpayers in the history of the world to date.  Anywhere, anytime.

And if the debt service is 3.2 trillion on $700 billion in stimulus, what must the debt service be on;

$ 1.2 trillion in bailouts to banks and insurance companies?? (AIG with almost 200 billion just by themselves!)

$ 1.5 to 2 trillion in war debt just to get back for Daddy's embarassment??  Not to mention killing 4,000 of our kids - not even for something as substantial as private gain, but for private PRIDE!!

$ 60 billion in bailouts to GM and Chrysler??

Those who try hard to erase history are doomed to drag the rest of us back through a repetition of the BS once more.