You Know What's Freakin Hilarious...Bigotry

[Conan71]

Why should it be the president's responsibility to curb the racial tension? Many tea-partiers have proven themselves to be very racist, as have nearly all of the outspoken talking heads for the conservative side. Why isn't anyone from the GOP, Fox news, or any conservative group for that matter, denouncing these racist actions and clearly racist hate speech? I'll tell you why- it clearly plays to a large percentage of their constituents, that's why.

Nobody will ever admit to being a racist. But allowing these types of passive-aggressive, covertly (or not so covertly) racist actions and hate speeches to take place within you own organizations, or at you rallies, or on your TV or radio stations, and not speak out against them, is in itself condoning racism.

You are correct, it's not a defined responsibility of being President but leadership is.  Why shouldn't it be a leader's role to lead on issues?  This is a huge issue which is really stunting the growth of our country.  He has a unique position to improve things that a white President could not.  I think he's ignoring a smoldering tinder box that could really flash at some point.  Other than saying it's not a responsibility of a President- if you were in his position, why would you not want to do everything in your power to try and ease the racial tension?

As far as the comment of many Tea Partiers being racist, I believe that's incorrect.  I think there are some but they are the only ones that more liberal media outlets care to cover in an effort to discredit the whole movement via racial intimidation by trying to paint the whole movement as racist.  There have been incredibly stupid and clumsy attempts to deal with these accusations like Williams' stupid blog post and Breitbart's sloppy edit of a speech which apparently was meant to illustrate how far Shirley Sherrod had come in her thinking on racism.  Don't think for a minute though that people like this are representative of an entire movement (unless we are talking about the KKK, that is  )

Here's excerpts from a great article in Time magazine this week:

"Since its inception, the Tea Party movement has struggled to shed the perception that its members' dislike of Obama is fueled by racism. Unveiling a new report on the movement's makeup on July 19, Democratic pollster Stan Greenberg noted the survey found that 39% of people outside the movement suspect its contempt for the President "may be motivated by racial feelings."

Many Tea Party leaders have disavowed the incendiary rhetoric and imagery that have surfaced at the movement's rallies, dismissing the incidents — as Webb did — as the work of the movement's "fringe." But Williams' invective, which came just days after the North Iowa Tea Party erected a billboard likening Obama to Hitler and Stalin, underscores a real organizational dilemma. The movement is bent on retaining the decentralized structure that fostered its growth, but its lack of formal leadership — and its confounding array of overlapping groups — means that when rogue members spout off, they can seem to be speaking for the movement as a whole.

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,2005371,00.html?xid=rss-topstories#ixzz0uQxU3bhO

[azbadpuppy]

You are correct, it's not a defined responsibility of being President but leadership is.  Why shouldn't it be a leader's role to lead on issues?  This is a huge issue which is really stunting the growth of our country.  He has a unique position to improve things that a white President could not.  I think he's ignoring a smoldering tinder box that could really flash at some point.  Other than saying it's not a responsibility of a President- if you were in his position, why would you not want to do everything in your power to try and ease the racial tension?

As far as the comment of many Tea Partiers being racist, I believe that's incorrect.  I think there are some but they are the only ones that more liberal media outlets care to cover in an effort to discredit the whole movement via racial intimidation by trying to paint the whole movement as racist.  There have been incredibly stupid and clumsy attempts to deal with these accusations like Williams' stupid blog post and Breitbart's sloppy edit of a speech which apparently was meant to illustrate how far Shirley Sherrod had come in her thinking on racism.  Don't think for a minute though that people like this are representative of an entire movement (unless we are talking about the KKK, that is  )

Here's excerpts from a great article in Time magazine this week:

"Since its inception, the Tea Party movement has struggled to shed the perception that its members' dislike of Obama is fueled by racism. Unveiling a new report on the movement's makeup on July 19, Democratic pollster Stan Greenberg noted the survey found that 39% of people outside the movement suspect its contempt for the President "may be motivated by racial feelings."

Many Tea Party leaders have disavowed the incendiary rhetoric and imagery that have surfaced at the movement's rallies, dismissing the incidents — as Webb did — as the work of the movement's "fringe." But Williams' invective, which came just days after the North Iowa Tea Party erected a billboard likening Obama to Hitler and Stalin, underscores a real organizational dilemma. The movement is bent on retaining the decentralized structure that fostered its growth, but its lack of formal leadership — and its confounding array of overlapping groups — means that when rogue members spout off, they can seem to be speaking for the movement as a whole.

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,2005371,00.html?xid=rss-topstories#ixzz0uQxU3bhO

Only very recently, under intense scrutiny and criticism, has anyone from the TP's denounced these hateful and racist actions. It was allowed to continue and fester, unchecked for a long time. Remember when members of Congress were spit on and called horrible racist names by self avowed tea party members? Leaders of the TP's tried to shrug it off, claiming they were 'plants' in the crowd and not actual members which was ultimately proven false. No apologies given there.

I think you also have to look at the motivations of such a group that attracts that many so called 'fringe' members. When do the 'fringes' become the mainstream? I think if you look at the past several decades in the Republican party, what would have been thought of as more 'fringe' element 30 years ago is now pretty much the mainstream, represenative element of the GOP.

[Conan71]

Fringe nuts exist in any political, religious, or some sort of activist circle.  The GOP and Tea Party don't have a monopoly on it. 

Probably less than 1% of all Muslims engage in terrorism, yet that's largely how a religion of reputedly 1.5 bln people is defined in the minds of many.  There's also nutcase far left liberals inhabiting the Democrat party, but do you characterize them as defining the Democrat Party?  Do the most radical in gay rights movements speak well for the rest? 

I've heard racist behavior denounced prior to now, but if my mind was entirely made up that all Tea Partiers are racist, I probably would not have heard them.

All that said, wouldn't you like to see the President take a better lead on the race issue?  I don't understand why it is more left leaning people don't seem to act like he should.

[azbadpuppy]

All that said, wouldn't you like to see the President take a better lead on the race issue?  I don't understand why it is more left leaning people don't seem to act like he should.

I guess I'm not sure what he should do. Racism is very alive and well in this country, and it is even more evident after Obama took office.

I personally think many, many people in this country are racist, and we haven't really progressed that much from the 60's. Most white people still think differently about minority groups, and minorities still do not have total equality in this country. The recent battle cry from the fear mongers regarding the 'illegals' (brown people) 'invading' the country and taking over is deeply rooted in racism. The record numbers of (mostly white) citizens rushing out to buy guns in the wake of the black man taking over the country is deeply rooted in racism. The fact that many white people in Tulsa STILL won't drive north of Admiral (unless going to the zoo or airport) is deeply rooted in racism. Racism and fear. They go hand in hand.

Should Obama stand before us and try to say this isn't happening, and that everyone should just calm down and get along? I don't think so.

[guido911]

I guess I'm not sure what he should do. Racism is very alive and well in this country, and it is even more evident after Obama took office.

He needs to come out and say that Breitbart "acted stupidly".

[Townsend]

Breitbart "acted stupidly".

That's self-evident

[waterboy]

Has nothing to do with "feelings."  Any organization who's mission is based solely on a person's race is prejudiced.  That is the fact of the matter.  I am not passing judgement on that.   

The tribes are structured as a government body existing within a government.  Their mission promotes the advancement and support of a single race.  By definition that is considered prejudice, because it establishes a racial preference.

Now again, are they bigots? No. When that preference turns into hatred, or action against other racial groups you have bigotry. Are they racists? No. Their mission is to advance their race, and is not based on a perception of superiority over others.

It's not that hard.

As I've noted before, nothing is that hard for you. Drop the word feeling then. Apparently what you say is factual only. Since you say the tribes are not bigoted, that is apparently more than your feeling, it is fact. Problem is I know many tribal members who absolutely hate the white man and enjoy sticking it to him with casinoes and lawsuits.

The whole world is full of haters based on race, appearance, sex, etc ad infinitum. By your definition they are also bigots. I think your cutting extemely thin sections of cake that won't stand up.

Everyone wants their special interests to be addressed by the first black president. But if he makes decisions defending other blacks interests, even though a white president would make the same decision, it will be used as yet another example of him disliking whitey and being prejudiced. That is a no win. It is designed to be no win.

Truth is there was yet another striking successful legislative effort accomplished under his leadership this week, financial reform as great as the depression era saw. It may not be approved by the Okie intellectuals but it targets the real culprits of the financial debacle and must be dealt with. Yet American media, prodded by the Fox network and nutjob wingers has managed to shift the discussion back to something they can understand.....race.

[azbadpuppy]

As I've noted before, nothing is that hard for you. Drop the word feeling then. Apparently what you say is factual only. Since you say the tribes are not bigoted, that is apparently more than your feeling, it is fact. Problem is I know many tribal members who absolutely hate the white man and enjoy sticking it to him with casinoes and lawsuits.

The whole world is full of haters based on race, appearance, sex, etc ad infinitum. By your definition they are also bigots. I think your cutting extemely thin sections of cake that won't stand up.

Everyone wants their special interests to be addressed by the first black president. But if he makes decisions defending other blacks interests, even though a white president would make the same decision, it will be used as yet another example of him disliking whitey and being prejudiced. That is a no win. It is designed to be no win.

Truth is there was yet another striking successful legislative effort accomplished under his leadership this week, financial reform as great as the depression era saw. It may not be approved by the Okie intellectuals but it targets the real culprits of the financial debacle and must be dealt with. Yet American media, prodded by the Fox network and nutjob wingers has managed to shift the discussion back to something they can understand.....race.

Good post, and very true.

[Conan71]

I guess I'm not sure what he should do. Racism is very alive and well in this country, and it is even more evident after Obama took office.

I personally think many, many people in this country are racist, and we haven't really progressed that much from the 60's. Most white people still think differently about minority groups, and minorities still do not have total equality in this country. The recent battle cry from the fear mongers regarding the 'illegals' (brown people) 'invading' the country and taking over is deeply rooted in racism. The record numbers of (mostly white) citizens rushing out to buy guns in the wake of the black man taking over the country is deeply rooted in racism. The fact that many white people in Tulsa STILL won't drive north of Admiral (unless going to the zoo or airport) is deeply rooted in racism. Racism and fear. They go hand in hand.

Should Obama stand before us and try to say this isn't happening, and that everyone should just calm down and get along? I don't think so.

No, the President shouldn't say it's not happening when it is.  But that's akin to what I see as him just flat ignoring the issue.  Why couldn't he have a "fireside chat" about racism?  Why would he want play into the idea that opposition to his policies are racist in nature by not saying something to the contrary unless he sees benefit to playing the race game?

I mean is it really a correct assumption that people who oppose healthcare reform, finance reform, or the stimulus only are against it because they are on the agenda of a black President?  Oddly enough, opposition to healthcare reform during the Clinton Admin was not referred to as racism.  If these were all items under the agenda of a white Democrat, I'm quite certain the percentages against them would be roughly the same.  If Hillary had become President, I'm guessing it would have been misogyny?  I'm not glib enough to not think there are hard-core racists out there who are appalled we have a black President, but they are a real minority when it comes to policy issues that people oppose based on conservative ideology.

I apparently must not be racist since I don't automatically think of Mexicans when I think of illegal aliens.  I'm quite well aware that we have people here from many different countries who entered our country illegally or over-stayed their visas.  For me immigration is a common sense issue.  You simply cannot allow other people to openly enter a country and tax the infrastructure and social services without there being consequences.  In a time where the economy is tight and jobs are scarce, we don't need more people coming here competing for jobs.  That's where citizens (of all colors, sex, and national origin) should be protected. 

I drive north of Admiral quite frequently, I even bike through north Tulsa on the Midland Trail occasion, though I can honestly say that broken glass, loitering teenagers, and the occasional burned car adjacent to the bike path makes me think twice about cycling up to Skiatook or riding up Cincinnatti alone.  I definitely don't go on those rides alone.  That has nothing to do with me being a racist it's simple common sense that it's probably not a good idea to hang out alone in high crime areas.

The reason I own firearms has nothing to do with a black man being President.  It's got to do with my enjoying target shooting, it's a safe place to park money in just about any economic times, and self protection in case someone decides they want to attempt to make me a victim of crime.

You have your opinion and I have mine.  I simply think the race card is being way over-played as a form of political intimidation because no one wants to be labeled a racist.

[nathanm]

Has nothing to do with "feelings."  Any organization who's mission is based solely on a person's race is prejudiced.  That is the fact of the matter.  I am not passing judgement on that.  

Next you're going to tell me women's shelters are sexist. Pull the other one.

Personally, I think that even most of the tea partiers and others who are pulling this crap aren't actually racist. Or at least I like to believe that. I think they are race-baiting..attempting to cause racial tension by accusing others of racism (especially making white people think the black people are coming to get 'em), but I doubt that most of them truly believe black people are inferior or anything else.

It's like the swift-boating of Kerry. It's not actually about what they say it's about, it's just about stirring smile up in a terribly cynical way for political gain.

[Conan71]

As I've noted before, nothing is that hard for you. Drop the word feeling then. Apparently what you say is factual only. Since you say the tribes are not bigoted, that is apparently more than your feeling, it is fact. Problem is I know many tribal members who absolutely hate the white man and enjoy sticking it to him with casinoes and lawsuits.

The whole world is full of haters based on race, appearance, sex, etc ad infinitum. By your definition they are also bigots. I think your cutting extemely thin sections of cake that won't stand up.

Everyone wants their special interests to be addressed by the first black president. But if he makes decisions defending other blacks interests, even though a white president would make the same decision, it will be used as yet another example of him disliking whitey and being prejudiced. That is a no win. It is designed to be no win.

Truth is there was yet another striking successful legislative effort accomplished under his leadership this week, financial reform as great as the depression era saw. It may not be approved by the Okie intellectuals but it targets the real culprits of the financial debacle and must be dealt with. Yet American media, prodded by the Fox network and nutjob wingers has managed to shift the discussion back to something they can understand.....race.

But you see, you just painted with a very broad stroke.  To call a whole tribe bigoted because there are people in it's ranks who are bigots isn't right.  There are also people in tribes who don't hate white people, who have married into white families, and who associate with white people daily.  Tribes do practice prejudice in their hiring practices to try and benefit their citizens.  That's something I wish we'd take a lesson from instead of calling it racism when we demand the Federal government to enforce immigration laws.

[Gaspar]

The whole world is full of haters based on race, appearance, sex, etc ad infinitum. By your definition they are also bigots. I think your cutting extemely thin sections of cake that won't stand up.

Waterboy,
I am not making up my own definitions.  These are THE definitions.  FOTD never like the actual definitions of things, so he lived in his own world. 

I am not offering any judgement.  I am simply pointing out the definition of 3 terms that people confuse and bend to their own meanings.

You asked a question.  I offered an answer.  I do not own the terminology used.

You are correct though.  The world I live in is simple.  It's easy to understand.  I enjoy the language and the math.  When people tell me that I make things too simple I take that as a complement.  I think that people make things too hard.

Complexity is the mother of insanity. . .for me at least.

[joiei]

Here is Mrs Sherrod's speech in full.   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9NcCa_KjXk&feature=player_embedded#!

[azbadpuppy]

No, the President shouldn't say it's not happening when it is.  But that's akin to what I see as him just flat ignoring the issue.  Why couldn't he have a "fireside chat" about racism?  Why would he want play into the idea that opposition to his policies are racist in nature by not saying something to the contrary unless he sees benefit to playing the race game?

I mean is it really a correct assumption that people who oppose healthcare reform, finance reform, or the stimulus only are against it because they are on the agenda of a black President?  Oddly enough, opposition to healthcare reform during the Clinton Admin was not referred to as racism.  If these were all items under the agenda of a white Democrat, I'm quite certain the percentages against them would be roughly the same.  If Hillary had become President, I'm guessing it would have been misogyny?  I'm not glib enough to not think there are hard-core racists out there who are appalled we have a black President, but they are a real minority when it comes to policy issues that people oppose based on conservative ideology.

I apparently must not be racist since I don't automatically think of Mexicans when I think of illegal aliens.  I'm quite well aware that we have people here from many different countries who entered our country illegally or over-stayed their visas.  For me immigration is a common sense issue.  You simply cannot allow other people to openly enter a country and tax the infrastructure and social services without there being consequences.  In a time where the economy is tight and jobs are scarce, we don't need more people coming here competing for jobs.  That's where citizens (of all colors, sex, and national origin) should be protected. 

I drive north of Admiral quite frequently, I even bike through north Tulsa on the Midland Trail occasion, though I can honestly say that broken glass, loitering teenagers, and the occasional burned car adjacent to the bike path makes me think twice about cycling up to Skiatook or riding up Cincinnatti alone.  I definitely don't go on those rides alone.  That has nothing to do with me being a racist it's simple common sense that it's probably not a good idea to hang out alone in high crime areas.

The reason I own firearms has nothing to do with a black man being President.  It's got to do with my enjoying target shooting, it's a safe place to park money in just about any economic times, and self protection in case someone decides they want to attempt to make me a victim of crime.

You have your opinion and I have mine.  I simply think the race card is being way over-played as a form of political intimidation because no one wants to be labeled a racist.

First of all, I was never accusing you of being racist. I am just stating that obviously there are many, many racist people out there. Also I dont think it is correct to assume that if someone is opposed to Obama's policies then they must be a racist. That has nothing to do with it. I think his being continually disrespected, his birthplace questioned, the Muslim accusations, being constantly compared to Hitler, the antichrist, whatever, speaks far more loudly on the issue of racism. He is completely disrespected by many people, simply because he is thought of as being inferior. Seriously, I have never heard such disrespect for the president of the US (no, not even with George W). The jokes, the websites, the media, the blatant racist propaganda. Its disgusting really. Not agreeing with his policies has nothing to do with this. Honestly it wouldn't even matter what his policies were he would still be hated and would never be taken seriously. To me it is shocking the amount of hatred that is out there. Hatred and fear.

I visit Tulsa frequently and still hear, just like I did 30 years ago, how evil and crime ridden the north side is. People gasp when I say I'm interested in buying a piece of property on the north side. "Ooh no, you don't want to do that! Don't you know, thats the black part of town." Everyone who lives in Tulsa knows this is true.

I don't think all these white people in Arizona are referring to Canadians or the Irish when they talk about the "Damn illegals" ruining this country, or how we should "ship em back over the border where they belong."

Feeling the need to run out and buy a gun, right after the first black man was elected president, speaks of the fear  and paranioa many in this country possess, some of which is definitely racially motivated.

Its a touchy subject, and we obviously have our own opinions, but it is what it is. I do not think it has anything to do with playing a 'race card' since that implies bluffing. The racist mentality in this country is unfortunately very real.

[Red Arrow]

Seriously, I have never heard such disrespect for the president of the US (no, not even with George W). The jokes, the websites, the media, the blatant racist propaganda.

Except for the racial card, I have to disagree.  It could be that what I consider disrespect for W, you consider justified criticism.