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jne
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« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2010, 11:49:23 am » |
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Oh I've been harping on this in a couple different threads lately. Adding small hotels to the DT scene is useful on a superficial level in that there are now more rooms added to DT inventory, but less useful in a strategic sense in that they don't encourage the growth of group occupancy.
Think of it this way: hotels divide their business roughly in thirds: 1) retail transient, or individual room sales to individual travelers, via Priceline, Hotwire, call-in and walk-in 2) business transient, or negotiated rates with local businesses in exchange for a set amount of room nights per yer (or 6 mos, or per quarter), and 3) group rooms, or committed limited term room blocks that range from citywide conventions to traveling amateur sports teams.
So on any given day, the total room inventory is divided between those three segments, and commitments per day vary. On weekdays a given hotel downtown might commit 60 of its 100 rooms to business transient, 30 to group, and 10 to retail, while on the weekends the split would change to 60 group, 30 retail, 10 business. Etc.
Point being that when thinking about DT as a unified environment for bringing in the larger conventions, adding 100 limited service rooms does virtually nothing for the larger strategic picture. They'll commit only a portion of their rooms to group. Likewise, converting the Old City Hall into 200 upscale rooms sounds fantastic on some levels, on others it's less constructive than if we'd decided to bulldoze the whole lot and put up a 600 room Sheraton. It's the difference between committing 100 rooms to group vs 300.
As it stands, some of the larger conventions that Tulsa could compete for must split their room block at two or three (or four, or five, etc) different properties all around DT, and that alone could be a deal-breaker for groups that need more centralized control over their agenda.
Of course this is not to say that a new hotel anywhere in the IDL isn't great news; and it's even better if it's new construction that's done well and will help build the ecosystem in the Brady. Don't get me wrong about this; it's excellent news, but I just wish we had a more concerted plan for making us a destination.
EXACTLY! - I've been going on about this for some time as well. I've worked organizing a fairly small national conference here in Tulsa a few years back (around 350 people) and would love to try to bring in a much larger one, but we simply don't have the capacity for a single large group. Tulsa could be a great opportunity for a lot of national groups to host very affordable conferences in a central location. Someone seriously needs to start thinking about this. One idea might be to develop a consortium of these hotels that can bundle a deal and services (with accommodations at the various hotel sites, convenient transportation being a necessity here) and for larger group accommodation and use the new convention center as the venue maybe.... |
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Vote for the two party system!
-one one Friday and one on Saturday.
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swake
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« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2010, 12:25:57 pm » |
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EXACTLY! - I've been going on about this for some time as well. I've worked organizing a fairly small national conference here in Tulsa a few years back (around 350 people) and would love to try to bring in a much larger one, but we simply don't have the capacity for a single large group. Tulsa could be a great opportunity for a lot of national groups to host very affordable conferences in a central location. Someone seriously needs to start thinking about this. One idea might be to develop a consortium of these hotels that can bundle a deal and services (with accommodations at the various hotel sites, convenient transportation being a necessity here) and for larger group accommodation and use the new convention center as the venue maybe....
Well, the two big downtown hotels are like 415 and 470 rooms each, and now SJS will have two hotels that will be able to be sold together with over 300 rooms and Brickhugger will have two hotels with over 300 rooms. |
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sgrizzle
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« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2010, 01:18:40 pm » |
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Well, the two big downtown hotels are like 415 and 470 rooms each, and now SJS will have two hotels that will be able to be sold together with over 300 rooms and Brickhugger will have two hotels with over 300 rooms.
You forgot the holiday inn We still need one good convention hotel of about 600 rooms and convention space. Crowne Plaza is close. |
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Renaissance
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« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2010, 01:30:17 pm » |
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Denver saw this same problem in its downtown and when they rebuilt their convention center the city brokered a public-private partnership with Hyatt to build an 1,100 room hotel right next to it. They were very smart to do this. I think OKC is trying to eventually do the same thing once they get their plans finalized for the new convention center they're building as part of MAPS 3.
Dallas has the same thing--a city-owned 1000 room hotel operated by Omni, opening in 2012. Very controversial, but it's going up. http://www.omnihotels.com/findahotel/DallasHotel.aspx |
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swake
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« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2010, 01:34:29 pm » |
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Take it for what it's worth, which is not much, but one of the commentors on the World site said that Kaiser is going to buy the Crowne Plaza out of Bankruptcy and take an 80% stake in that hotel. I have no idea if true, but interesting if it is.
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we vs us
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« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2010, 01:48:29 pm » |
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Well, the two big downtown hotels are like 415 and 470 rooms each, and now SJS will have two hotels that will be able to be sold together with over 300 rooms and Brickhugger will have two hotels with over 300 rooms.
Definitely true, but that's my point, really. When you take into consideration how each segment (retail, business transient, group) draws from overall inventory, the total amount of rooms available for a convention could be as little as a third of the total downtown. |
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we vs us
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« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2010, 01:50:38 pm » |
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FWIW, Dallas is playing smart. By 2012 the convention environment should be significantly different. Even now we're seeing bookings in 2012 and beyond firm up, and rate start to increase. Regardless of what the overall economy is doing, hotel-land is seeing a surprising turnaround. |
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« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2010, 01:53:52 pm » |
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That's interesting. I hadn't thought of it that way. Too bad Hammons built the 300 room Renaissance out at 71st and 169. I don't think we're going to see a 600 room hotel in Tulsa--ever--but a property like the Renassance closer to the Convention Center would be good. I wonder how big the proposed Hilton will be at One Place, and whether that and the coming Aloft will be enough for convention center business?
I have it on good authority that he was originally offered DT space by Mayor Taylor, but not enough concessions (parking was one concern) to make it worth his while. And isn't One Place supposed to be a Hampton Inn? |
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swake
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« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2010, 02:00:17 pm » |
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FWIW, Dallas is playing smart. By 2012 the convention environment should be significantly different. Even now we're seeing bookings in 2012 and beyond firm up, and rate start to increase. Regardless of what the overall economy is doing, hotel-land is seeing a surprising turnaround.
Wouldn't the most reasonable thing to do be to add a second hotel tower to the DoubleTree? There's a very large field right behind the hotel and it's already attached to the convention center. At this point I kind of expect to hear about one or two more small limited service hotels soon, one next to Oneok and maybe another in the Blue Dome area. |
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« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2010, 02:31:56 pm » |
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Wouldn't the most reasonable thing to do be to add a second hotel tower to the DoubleTree? There's a very large field right behind the hotel and it's already attached to the convention center.
At this point I kind of expect to hear about one or two more small limited service hotels soon, one next to Oneok and maybe another in the Blue Dome area.
Well look at that. It hadn't registered in the past, but you're right. There's a lot of backyard there with the DTDT. Interestingly enough, rumor has it they've been searching for a buyer for awhile now . . . and with no real prospects. Seems the reno costs to bring it up to date are prohibitive in this credit environment. Also, you're exactly right about the limited service boxes showing up in the IDL. There will be more before it's all over. |
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Renaissance
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« Reply #25 on: July 21, 2010, 02:48:58 pm » |
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While we're discussing the Tulsa hotel market, how does this story from yesterday's Tulsa World about hotel rates plummeting fit in to the equation? Also another tasty parcel is the Page Belcher Courthouse building, between BOK and the Convention Center. Someday that building will be replaced by the federal government, potentially freeing up that block--somebody call up John Sullivan and Jim Inhofe and ask them when. |
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azbadpuppy
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« Reply #26 on: July 21, 2010, 04:31:03 pm » |
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Ditto for Phoenix. The new 1000 room Sheraton (largest in the state of AZ) is city owned and adjacent to the new convention center. IMO I find it ridiculous for the taxpayers to be funding projects like this, which should be kept private. Not to mention all of the other struggling hotels in the surrounding area that now can barely keep their occupancy levels at a break-even point. The Tulsa market, however, is not in the same category as Denver, Dallas, or Phoenix. I think the best solution for now would be to set up efficient shuttle service to link all available hotel rooms DT to the convention center/BOK. |
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sgrizzle
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« Reply #27 on: July 21, 2010, 08:20:31 pm » |
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Ditto for Phoenix. The new 1000 room Sheraton (largest in the state of AZ) is city owned and adjacent to the new convention center. IMO I find it ridiculous for the taxpayers to be funding projects like this, which should be kept private. Not to mention all of the other struggling hotels in the surrounding area that now can barely keep their occupancy levels at a break-even point.
The Tulsa market, however, is not in the same category as Denver, Dallas, or Phoenix. I think the best solution for now would be to set up efficient shuttle service to link all available hotel rooms DT to the convention center/BOK.
How can you do that when the shuttle could need to provide for 10 people one day and 1,000 the next? |
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azbadpuppy
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« Reply #28 on: July 21, 2010, 08:22:24 pm » |
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How can you do that when the shuttle could need to provide for 10 people one day and 1,000 the next?
Thats what good sales people and event planners are for. |
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« Reply #29 on: July 21, 2010, 08:24:42 pm » |
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Thats what good sales people and event planners are for.
*spit-take* |
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