Electric Cars CAN Be Cool!!

[heironymouspasparagus]

I don't remember ever getting a reasonable answer on what it will cost to replace a battery at the end of its life.  With that in mind, I think a battery exchange which operates like grill size propane bottle exchanges might be a good plan.  You own "a battery" but not a specific battery.  The exchange would maintain the batteries as well as keep them charged.

I also see a lot more old  pickup trucks than new ones.  There are a significant number of people with money in the Tulsa Metro Area. Seeing a few thousand new pickups, BMWs, Lexus..... doesn't mean they are really affordable.  I kind of draw the line at low $20K as the upper reaches of what I call affordable.  I also remember buying a new Buick Skylark Sport Coupe in 1981 for less than $9K.  I think the base model was about $6.5K.  

Way back in 2010, the straight out replacement cost was estimated at $30,000.  Caveats - you could then buy a 'pre-paid' battery option for 10 years from then (expected life), when the warranty went away for $12,000.  (Future value of 12k is about 15k in 10 years or so, for the 'real' cost then.)

And the battery swap thing is predicated on you coming back to the charging station at some point to retrieve your battery, charged and ready to go....not sure how the logistics of that will work.  But the free charge in 30 minutes works like a charm for me!!  Works great for me on a lot of the trips made around this area.

Price of the future sedan is estimated at about $40k.  Today's cars are double that for high capacity model - 300 mile range or so.

Given the fact that lithium ion technology has been going done at 10-15% per year, well, that will level off, but at much less than 30k.  At which time graphene supercapps will be (may be??) available for about the same as today's lithium.

And I'm keeping my old pickup!!  It's a Dodge, after all....

[custosnox]

Of course not everyone buys a 3500 diesel.

Entry level is more like:
Silverado 1500
http://www.chevrolet.com/silverado-1500-pickup-truck.html

Don't misunderstand me.  I think electric has a lot of promise.  It's getting closer to reality for the masses but I don't think it's there yet.

My point is that you see a lot of these vehicles out on the street, meaning that it's not that far out of the price range of the masses. Not to mention that this is one of the poorest states in the union. No, I'm not saying that they are cheap, but for a new technology, they aren't exorbitant in price either. Given a bit more time, I wouldn't be surprised to see even lower costs (if I recall, just two years ago I think I recall the MSRP on leafs sitting at around $40K)

[davideinstein]

Everyone should read Start Up Nation.

[Red Arrow]

My point is that you see a lot of these vehicles out on the street, meaning that it's not that far out of the price range of the masses.

I understand your point.  I disagree with your assessment regarding the quantity of $30+K diesel duallie pickup trucks and perhaps who (or what businness) owns them.  They are somewhat distinctive and stand out more than other vehicles.  Have you also noticed that after you buy a car that there are a lot more of them on the road than before you bought it?   The entry level Leaf is in the affordable range after tax benefits, assuming you pay enough tax to get those benefits.

[Cats Cats Cats]

I would pick a tesla over cars of similar price point.  But I can't bring myself to spend that much on a depreciating liability like a car when I could buy 2-3 cheaper cars.

[heironymouspasparagus]

I would pick a tesla over cars of similar price point.  But I can't bring myself to spend that much on a depreciating liability like a car when I could buy 2-3 cheaper cars.

Wait a couple years - it will be much lower for a sedan.

If I were guido, though, I would have one now!!

[custosnox]

I understand your point.  I disagree with your assessment regarding the quantity of $30+K diesel duallie pickup trucks and perhaps who (or what businness) owns them.  They are somewhat distinctive and stand out more than other vehicles.  Have you also noticed that after you buy a car that there are a lot more of them on the road than before you bought it?   The entry level Leaf is in the affordable range after tax benefits, assuming you pay enough tax to get those benefits.

and the even more expensive avalanche? I see quiet a few of them on the road. As for the diesel, I actually meant to post the gasoline burning 2500, which, while cheaper, is still in the price range of the leaf, popular, and not generally lumped in with bmws

Sent from my galaxy, far far away, with tapatalk

[Red Arrow]

and the even more expensive avalanche? I see quiet a few of them on the road. As for the diesel, I actually meant to post the gasoline burning 2500, which, while cheaper, is still in the price range of the leaf, popular, and not generally lumped in with bmws

Maybe you just spend too much time in the rich part of town.   

I see those vehicles too, along with BMW, Lexus, Infinity....   I just believe that the quantity of new ones does not define affordable as nearly $30K.  We obviously disagree.

[custosnox]

Maybe you just spend too much time in the rich part of town.   

I see those vehicles too, along with BMW, Lexus, Infinity....   I just believe that the quantity of new ones does not define affordable as nearly $30K.  We obviously disagree.

I live in East Tulsa, commute to downtown and TU, and while I see the occasional BMW, Lexus, and other luxury cars, I don't see them at the same frequency as heavier duty trucks. It's a matter of what people are willing to pay for, in this state they see trucks as a reason to spend a bit more, but luxury cars only if you want to show off having money. I can just imagine that the general public here would be appalled at spending that kind of money on something as useless as an electric car.

[Townsend]

The 10 Most Incredible Cars of the Future

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Media/Slideshow/2012/08/22/10-Most-Incredible-Cars-of-the-Future.aspx?index=1

[heironymouspasparagus]

I think I will stick with the diesel truck....can tow anything I will ever want to tow.  At a reasonable 9 mpg!!  Would last me at least another half million miles - way more than I am likely to want to camp out for the rest of my time.

http://www.truckpaper.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=4217339

Even if I want to tow this....

http://www.andersonmobileestates.com/trailer-heat.php


guido, THIS is what camping is all about.....every amenity even you could imagine - maybe more!  I especially like the marble treatments.

[Gaspar]

Anything that says ". . .of the future" hasn't graduated from the infomercial stage of marketing yet.

The problem is simple physics.  A typical tank of gasoline has about 3,000mJ of energy and weighs about 130-140lbs.

Depending on the technology used, an electric car fuel cell only has about 5% to 10% of that energy capacity and can weigh thousands of pounds.  The batteries in the smallest examples, like the Nissan leaf weigh 660lbs.

Until we can solve the energy storage problem, electric cars just won't be that cool (literally and figuratively).

[Townsend]

Anything that says ". . .of the future" hasn't graduated from the infomercial stage of marketing yet.

It wasn't posted as a "here they are".

[heironymouspasparagus]

Anything that says ". . .of the future" hasn't graduated from the infomercial stage of marketing yet.

The problem is simple physics.  A typical tank of gasoline has about 3,000mJ of energy and weighs about 130-140lbs.

Depending on the technology used, an electric car fuel cell only has about 5% to 10% of that energy capacity and can weigh thousands of pounds.  The batteries in the smallest examples, like the Nissan leaf weigh 660lbs.

Until we can solve the energy storage problem, electric cars just won't be that cool (literally and figuratively).

Coming soon to a battery system near you....

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/163071-graphene-supercapacitors-created-with-traditional-paper-making-process-rivals-lead-acid-battery-capacity

And here....

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/energy/2013/08/130821-supercapacitors/


I use supercaps (conventional) quite a bit and for the application, they are perfect.  If even some or hopefully most of the hype about this new thing is true, then we really do have the energy storage solution for electric systems.  Notice I DID NOT say electric cars - it is vastly MORE than just electric cars.  I already have 3 major designs I am ready to expand on that are waiting specifically on this - next storage technology - well, I am using lead acid for now, but they will be hugely better with this.

As for "of the future"...well, electric and hybrid cars are here now.  Today, and for the past several years.  Just waiting on pricing relative to scaled up production for the middle class to be able to afford it.  Kind of like where we were in about 1910 with the internal combustion automobile.  It was there - just had to be rich to get it.  Elon Musk is Henry Ford reincarnated.

[custosnox]

Anything that says ". . .of the future" hasn't graduated from the infomercial stage of marketing yet.

The problem is simple physics.  A typical tank of gasoline has about 3,000mJ of energy and weighs about 130-140lbs.

Depending on the technology used, an electric car fuel cell only has about 5% to 10% of that energy capacity and can weigh thousands of pounds.  The batteries in the smallest examples, like the Nissan leaf weigh 660lbs.

Until we can solve the energy storage problem, electric cars just won't be that cool (literally and figuratively).

You forget, the battery also takes the place of the engine, which can weigh well over 500 lbs itself (V8) and the transmission, which can weigh a couple of hundred. Low end, a tank of gas, a small engine (not counting those crappy 3 cylinders) and a transaxle, you are looking at close to 500, if not more. a fully charged fuel cell in newer generation batteries can get 300 miles or more. Generally a tank of gas will get from 300 to 500. I'm not sure where you are getting this 5% to 10% from, but even if those numbers are accurate (which would mean that the gasoline engines are not using the full potential of the energy of the gas, thus making them far less efficient than the batteries), you're trying to use them to paint a picture that doesn't exist.