Electric Cars CAN Be Cool!!

[Conan71]

You forget, the battery also takes the place of the engine, which can weigh well over 500 lbs itself (V8) and the transmission, which can weigh a couple of hundred. Low end, a tank of gas, a small engine (not counting those crappy 3 cylinders) and a transaxle, you are looking at close to 500, if not more. a fully charged fuel cell in newer generation batteries can get 300 miles or more. Generally a tank of gas will get from 300 to 500. I'm not sure where you are getting this 5% to 10% from, but even if those numbers are accurate (which would mean that the gasoline engines are not using the full potential of the energy of the gas, thus making them far less efficient than the batteries), you're trying to use them to paint a picture that doesn't exist.

There is still a motor, transmission and transaxle to get that battery power to the ground, not sure the weight though electric motors can be pretty substantial:

Nissan Leaf drive-line

edit: Nice read on the Leaf: http://www.electricownersclub.com/NissanLeaf2.html

[custosnox]

There is still a motor, transmission and transaxle to get that battery power to the ground, not sure the weight though electric motors can be pretty substantial:

Nissan Leaf drive-line

edit: Nice read on the Leaf: http://www.electricownersclub.com/NissanLeaf2.html

I stand corrected. I had something completely different in mind for the powertrain, and hadn't gotten the chance to look into it. It doesn't change the mileage per charge vs per tank, however.

[custosnox]

ah, here are some weight numbers

Rotors and stators are made of stacked silicon steel sheet disks, 200mm thick and 300mm in diameter. The motor itself, including the aluminum-alloy case, is just under 60kg, and the inverter weighs a bit over 15kg.

So an additional 175 lbs for those. Not really stacking up to this huge weight difference that Gasp was alluding to.

[sauerkraut]

I never heard it mentioned about how long those 'Lectric car motors can last? Can they go 200,000 miles  like a gasoline engine can or will the 'Lectric motors require a costly rebuild every so many thousand miles? Todays diesel engines can go many hundreds of thousand miles before they require major work. The electric motors they put in the cars don't look all the beefy.

[AquaMan]

Sauer, did you ever wonder why locomotives and vehicles like the cog railway up to Pikes Peak use electric motors to propel them and diesels to run their generators? Diesel is great for longevity and torque at certain rpms but they don't have the instant torque at low rpm that electric motors do. Combine the two and you have a great drive train. Diesel alone is stinky, expensive to repair and noisy....for a long time...but still not as reliable as a good electric motor.

[Gaspar]

You forget, the battery also takes the place of the engine, which can weigh well over 500 lbs itself (V8) and the transmission, which can weigh a couple of hundred. Low end, a tank of gas, a small engine (not counting those crappy 3 cylinders) and a transaxle, you are looking at close to 500, if not more. a fully charged fuel cell in newer generation batteries can get 300 miles or more. Generally a tank of gas will get from 300 to 500. I'm not sure where you are getting this 5% to 10% from, but even if those numbers are accurate (which would mean that the gasoline engines are not using the full potential of the energy of the gas, thus making them far less efficient than the batteries), you're trying to use them to paint a picture that doesn't exist.

That is not correct.
There is still an electric motor (or several).  Most models still rely on a transmission of sorts with flywheel and transaxel. I am not aware of any models with a 300 mile range.  The leaf is only 73mi, and the Volt is only goes 32-58mi on battery (then the gasoline engine kicks in).  In comparison, the Chevy volt is 700lbs heavier than it's gasoline equivalent (Chevy Cruise).  Of course gasoline engines are not 100% efficient (no engine is), in that they produce heat.  Electric engines produce far less heat, but the inefficiency comes with the power source (batteries are very inefficient and produce significant heat during charge/discharge, and unless you have a home nuclear plant you are dealing with transmission loss).  The cost savings in the operation of an electric vehicle comes only from the fact that you are pulling energy from the grid through burning coal, oil, gas, nuclear. Rather than producing energy onboard through internal combustion.  

If you wonder why there is not an all electric SUV, it's because the weight to power ratio would equate to a ridiculous vehicle.  Imagine a pickup truck that weighs 10,000lbs and can't tow a trailer.

We'll get there some day but not until we have the right battery and/or power source.

[Conan71]

I believe I read the 2013 Leaf is supposed to have a 120 mile range and top speed of 93 MPH.  So you could get to OKC on a charge.  The draw-back to quick-charging the batteries for a quick turn-around is that quick charging does start to impact the battery's life and will shorten it if done repeatedly.  There are also other climatological warnings Nissan makes in regards to exposure to maximum and minimum temps for extended periods and other charging practices like not doing a recharge when the battery has over 80% charge remaining.

I don't ever see an electric car being practical for me while I'm still living in Tulsa as I tend to go anywhere from 200 to 500 miles a week and sometimes day trips can be 300-400 miles.  Could be practical for MC as she doesn't have to travel far during the day, but we also have motorcycles and bicycles for cost-effective transportation that she would rather ride.

[nathanm]

If you wonder why there is not an all electric SUV, it's because the weight to power ratio would equate to a ridiculous vehicle.  Imagine a pickup truck that weighs 10,000lbs and can't tow a trailer.

RAV4 EV exists, and could easily tow a trailer, as it has more torque than the standard 4 banger or the no longer available V6. Of course, it's got a less than 100 mile range. There also is/was a version of the Escape. Not here, though. Like Nissan, most manufacturers are limiting PEV sales to a few states.

Clearly EVs are not for everyone at this point. Few people would say they are. Claiming they're fatally flawed and will never amount to anything, however, is just refusing to see the world in front of you because it doesn't comport with your political views. It's like claiming solar power is worthless and will never be used when its value has been proven and it is widely used. Better to say that neither are silver bullets, because that's actually true.

An EV is definitely not for me, but that's mainly because owning any car simply isn't cost effective when you (would) drive less than 20 miles most weeks and almost never more than 40 except for infrequent out of town trips.

[Red Arrow]

RAV4 EV exists, and could easily tow a trailer, as it has more torque than the standard 4 banger or the no longer available V6. Of course, it's got a less than 100 mile range. There also is/was a version of the Escape. Not here, though. Like Nissan, most manufacturers are limiting PEV sales to a few states.

Clearly EVs are not for everyone at this point. Few people would say they are. Claiming they're fatally flawed and will never amount to anything, however, is just refusing to see the world in front of you because it doesn't comport with your political views. It's like claiming solar power is worthless and will never be used when its value has been proven and it is widely used. Better to say that neither are silver bullets, because that's actually true.

An EV is definitely not for me, but that's mainly because owning any car simply isn't cost effective when you (would) drive less than 20 miles most weeks and almost never more than 40 except for infrequent out of town trips.

RAV4 EV info from Toyota site:

Battery weight:  845.5 Lb
Range: 103 mi
Price: Starting at $49800 msrp

http://www.toyota.com/rav4ev/#!/Welcome

Edit:
Curb weights:

LE = 3435 Lb
XLE = 3465 Lb
Limited = 3500 Lb

EV = 4032 Lb

[heironymouspasparagus]

That is not correct.
There is still an electric motor (or several).  Most models still rely on a transmission of sorts with flywheel and transaxel. I am not aware of any models with a 300 mile range.  The leaf is only 73mi, and the Volt is only goes 32-58mi on battery (then the gasoline engine kicks in).  In comparison, the Chevy volt is 700lbs heavier than it's gasoline equivalent (Chevy Cruise).  

Why don't you pay attention?  There are many references to Tesla here and the internet right now is abuzz with the company.  And the 300 mile range.  And the FREE recharge at their charging stations.  And the 90 second battery change out.

Electric cars are viable.  Today.  Have been for a few years, actually.

[heironymouspasparagus]

We'll get there some day but not until we have the right battery and/or power source.

And as I said earlier - it will be a capacitor.  NOT a battery.

[Hoss]

Why don't you pay attention?  There are many references to Tesla here and the internet right now is abuzz with the company.  And the 300 mile range.  And the FREE recharge at their charging stations.  And the 90 second battery change out.

Electric cars are viable.  Today.  Have been for a few years, actually.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0489037/

I saw this movie a couple of years back about the GM EV-1.   A totally electric car you had to 'lease' in order to even own it.  Turns out the big oil lobby knows its way around the halls of gubmint.  Fascinating film.

[nathanm]

It surprised me that GM flatly refused to allow EV-1 owners to buy their cars at any price, even after it was decided that they'd just be put through a chipper.

[Red Arrow]

It surprised me that GM flatly refused to allow EV-1 owners to buy their cars at any price, even after it was decided that they'd just be put through a chipper.

GM probably didn't want to support those vehicles for 10 or more years.  I understood them to be a test bed only.  Get some real world input on the design.

[Red Arrow]

As a point of reference for the price of gasoline vs. battery replacement:

Assumptions:  (Legitimate thing as long as they are stated.  You can define other assumptions and get your own numbers.)
100,000 miles at 25 MPG = 4,000 gallons
4,000 gallons at $3.50 per gallon = $14,000.  (I know the price of gas will probably not remain constant but it makes the analysis easier to do and understand.)
Free electricity for 100,000 miles.

So, at 100,000 miles if your battery replacement costs $14,000. you are at the break even point.   That does not include the premium for buying the electric vehicle at the beginning.