Good News on Housing

[bokworker]

There's an idea for a new show..."Wealth re-distribution ruined my life".... lot's of participants.

[nathanm]

I really don't think the current situation of growing income disparity has much to do with something of the "the rich getting more and taking it from the poor" variety.

The research done on the topic does not prove that statement to be true.

[Gaspar]

There's an idea for a new show..."Wealth re-distribution ruined my life".... lot's of participants.

That show was already canceled in Russia, and much of Eastern Europe, and my cable doesn't pick up Cuban TV.

[Conan71]

The research done on the topic does not prove that statement to be true.

Cite the research.  (Didn't you ever have a physics or calc professor say: "Show your work!   )

There's way too many social programs available out there to support your assertion about "bad birth" and not being able to shower or get decent clothes for an interview.  You can even get transportation to and from a job, via social services.

Admittedly, I had a better hand up coming from a middle to upper middle class family.  However, my ambition was never terribly lofty.  I didn't care a whole lot for school, I did well but never worked to my full potential with the exception of history and English.  I really had a hard time with advanced math and science, though I got decent grades in those.  I could have easily gotten into law school, and at my current age, I'd likely be making three or four times what I do now, or I could simply be a burned out attorney playing bartender in some resort town.  I'm still not quite sure where people got the idea on here at one point that I'm an attorney.  I've got a law degree on my wall but it was my father's (who was a Democrat, if you can imagine).  I simply did not want to deal with all the reading through boring texts and confusing legal terms, spiced with latin.

Nope, I'm a college drop-out who could sell and could teach others to sell.  I've also got a very strong mechanical aptitude which allows me to grasp concepts which have helped me sell over the years.  I've been a regional sales manager for a chemical company, owned my own business, worked in advertising, and worked in finance.  Fact of the matter is, you don't go to college to learn to sell.  Either you can sell or you can't.  Either you get up and go make cold calls every day or take care of your clients or you fail.  I've caught some lucky breaks along the way, meeting the right person at the right time or having the right referral.  It was still up to me to win that job and more importantly to get out there every day and keep it.

Like Gaspar, there are people I know of who came from the worst possible home environment to become community leaders, and I've watched others with a silver spoon up their donkey crash and burn spectacularly (Doug Pielsticker, anyone?).  I've also seen people who came from a horrible environment repeat it, and I've seen those who came from wealth do even better than the generation before them.

At least in the America I live in, you are free to become as successful as you want or be as mediocre as you want, and there are people just waiting to help those who fail.  I learned through a very hard personal tragedy about 10 years ago that success wasn't piling up toys, adding to my bank account and building a little Taj Mahal as a tribute to my material success.  I learned success was leaving this planet just slightly better than it was when I got here.  I left my job with the chemical company and started my own business at that time.  That was a choice.  Again, I could be making two to three times what I do now, live in a fancier neighborhood, and drive a new Benz, but I'm so much happier with a job I love and fewer material possessions to worry about.  I'm still able to pay cash for my daughter's college and put some back for retirement which I'm planning on in about 10 years in my mid-50's.  I don't have lofty material goals anymore.

If someone else has lofty goals, they can get there if they are willing to put in the work.  You can go from a slum to law school or med school.  You don't have to have every break I got along the way.  If you have the right attitude and desire, people will spot it and will give you the chance to prove yourself.

Sorry to get off on the rah rah tangent.  I simply know no way of closing this supposed gap, other than advising people to work harder or go back to school if they want to earn more.  I'm not even sure this gap is a bad thing.  Obviously there are jobs to be done throughout the economy and people are needed to fill them.  There's a reason pushing a broom doesn't pay as much as being a technical service advsior does, it doesn't require much more skill than showing up every day.  People are apparently needed at every income level otherwise all jobs would pay the same.  If you try and close the gap by taking from the other end, that's punitive and goes against the concept of liberty that we hold dear.

I'm perfectly happy with my station in life and the choices which got me here.  I'm frankly quite tired of class envy and people unwittingly putting down a class of people who have helped make America a great place to live through the jobs they provide, the money they spend in the economy, and the gifts they give back to their communities.

/self-revealing soap box.

[TheArtist]

The research done on the topic does not prove that statement to be true.

  Would love to see any info about that.   

[we vs us]

[we vs us]

[we vs us]

If you can't say it with infographics, it shouldn't be on the web.

[nathanm]

Many of you seem to be under the mistaken impression that I'm saying everybody should make the same amount of money. I'm not at all. The problem isn't that some people make less than others, it's how ridiculously much less some people make than others.

Obviously, some income inequality is perfectly natural and doesn't cause an issue. The problems come in when taking it to one extreme or another.

In a 2005 study, the authors found that the top 10 percent of earners saw their share of overall income rise from 27 percent in 1966 to 45 percent in 2001

Their point: income inequality is growing even among the top 10 percent of earners as the superstars and CEOs increase their pay faster than lawyers and investment bankers. But at least the pay of the superstars, lawyers, and investment bankers is market-driven. The pay of CEOs is not.

They cite one study of 1,500 firms that found that the compensation earned by the top five corporate officers in 1993-5 equaled 5 percent of their firms' total profits during that period; by 2000-2, that ratio had more than doubled to 12.8 percent.

All this is happening as real wages continue their decline, eating away at the lower classes, even as more and more people get college degrees and learn technical skills.

If you want more, Google Scholar is your friend. I might post some further references if my brain feels up to understanding dense economics papers later on this evening.

We have this myth in this country that we have unlimited economic mobility and no class system at all. It's just not true. If you have the bad fortune to grow up in the inner city or in some rural backwater with an awful public school system, you have little chance of making it to the top. Sure, it happens, but those instances are the exception that proves the rule. It's ridiculous to assert that poor people are poor because they're all lazy. It's a radical assertion that nobody seems to have any proof for. The whole thing reminds me of people blaming the poor for the financial meltdown. It's so patently ridiculous I don't know why I even bother debating it.

[Red Arrow]

Many of you seem to be under the mistaken impression that I'm saying everybody should make the same amount of money. I'm not at all. The problem isn't that some people make less than others, it's how ridiculously much less some people make than others.

There will always be a Bill Gates or Warren Buffet.  There will always be someone at the bottom.  

A purchasing director at one of my former employers told me to always get 5 quotes for a project.  Discard both the most and least expensive and choose among the middle three.

If we (statistically) discard the richest and poorest extremes, what would the spread look like?  How much remains in the middle?  (You always seem to have the time to research things like this.)

Wages/salaries are also somewhat subject to supply and demand as well as value to society.  

[Red Arrow]

NM 88029 is Columbus, New Mexico.  It is a town just north of the NM/Mexico border west of El Paso, TX.  It is on an abandoned rail road.  I guess it doesn't surprise me that they aren't a hotbed of economic activity.  I expect that the cost (and yes, standard) of living is less than in NYC.  

73.4% of consumer debt is held by the bottom 90%.  People buying things they cannot afford.  I know some are buying necessities but not all.  What surprises me is that 26.6% of consumer debt is held by the top 10%.  Why aren't they paying their bills?  Investments paying more than the interest on the consumer debt?

Edit:  interesting facts about Columbus NM an Pancho Villa
http://www.southernnewmexico.com/Articles/Southwest/Luna/Columbus/ColumbusNewMexico-PanchoV.html

[Conan71]

Wev & Nathan,

If you were in the 1% that supposedly controls 34% of the wealth, would you still be concerned about income disparity? How would you propose to solve the issue?

[nathanm]

73.4% of consumer debt is held by the bottom 90%.  People buying things they cannot afford.  I know some are buying necessities but not all.

And the reason they can't afford the game console, big TV, or vacation? Because the real purchasing power of the average person has been steadily eroded over the last 30 years, while the real purchasing power of the top 10% has increased dramatically. I don't know what the solution is, but it's obviously a problem.

[Red Arrow]

And the reason they can't afford the game console, big TV, or vacation? Because the real purchasing power of the average person has been steadily eroded over the last 30 years, while the real purchasing power of the top 10% has increased dramatically. I don't know what the solution is, but it's obviously a problem.

Part of the solution regarding the consumer debt is for people to realize that they can't afford the 52" TV and they should settle for the 42" that maybe they can afford. Your numbers may be different but the principle applies. A sense of entitlement and requirement for instant gratification makes for bad financial decisions. "Charge it", I'll pay for it next month. Unfortunately, next month's money is already spent on purchases from months ago.  And so on..... It works for discretionary spending.  Doesn't help for the hot water heater that quits between paychecks once you are behind the curve.  Better education about handling personal finances while in High School could be a beginning since so many adults obviously don't know how to manage theirs.

[TheArtist]

  None of those graphics say WHY the disparity is increasing.  I have said it IS increasing.  It would have to in this world.  How could it not?

Say fifty years ago you were the rich guy able to sell something to 50 million people, but today your able to sell to 500 million people... he is gonna be a whole lot richer today.

And thats just one example.