Oklahoma Poll Results 8/1/10

[azbadpuppy]

I agree.  If the city can't keep some of its brightest natives how can it expect to attract more people from other areas?  I do think those that are new to Tulsa see it in a different light than those that have grown up here such as myself.  Tulsa is a great city with fantastic neighborhoods, lots of trees and hills, and more wealth than most cities our size thanks to the oil & gas industry and a strong entreprenurial spirit.  The city is growing, albeit slowly, and the metro is growing at a steady rate so it's not like we're some Rust Belt town that continues to lose population.  Oklahoma remains attractive to immigrants but for how long with a far-right legislature and potentially governor seemingly against them?  

I had wanted to get back to Tulsa for several years and started posted on this forum as an ex-Tulsan living somewhere else but visiting as often as possible.  This year is the first time I have actually lived in Tulsa for longer than a couple months since 2003 and for me it has been a mixed bag.  I like the direction downtown and the midtown neighborhood districts are going, and enjoy living near Cherry Street and fixing up an old house there.  Another part of me misses living in a bigger city.  I may not be here forever but while I'm here I want to get involved and do what I can to support those making Tulsa a better place.  Even with the crazy politicians it's still a good place to live and if I decide to move back to Denver in a couple years I know I'll miss being here.

Tulsa needs a LOT more people like you. Hopefully it will get there.

[guido911]

I agree.  If the city can't keep some of its brightest natives how can it expect to attract more people from other areas?

And by the "brightest", I assume you mean those that call a republican gubernatorial candidate a "nut". Seriously, this whole mess began when Ed decided to paint Oklahoma as a "benighted little backwater" in the eyes of others in this country. That's one heck of a way to sell our state and the quality of its citizens. Gas's response was perfectly appropriate given that sh!tty accusation presumably from a fellow Oklahoma "countryman" (is that how we are characterized one another wevsus?). Where's the condemnation from others on that statement about us Oklahomans?

[nathanm]

Where's the condemnation from others on that statement about us Oklahomans?

Ed was responding to the idiocy pointed out in the TW article and noted that is how people from other areas see us all. There is nothing to condemn and he has nothing to apologize for.

Edited to add: We have things going for us. A reasonably good economy. Stable housing prices. Low cost of living. The state's politics is not one of those things. There are too many radical right wingers and fundamentalist "Christians" running things.

[azbadpuppy]

And by the "brightest", I assume you mean those that call a republican gubernatorial candidate a "nut". Seriously, this whole mess began when Ed decided to paint Oklahoma as a "benighted little backwater" in the eyes of others in this country. That's one heck of a way to sell our state and the quality of its citizens. Gas's response was perfectly appropriate given that sh!tty accusation presumably from a fellow Oklahoma "countryman" (is that how we are characterized one another wevsus?). Where's the condemnation from others on that statement about us Oklahomans?

Ed didn't paint Oklahoma as a "benighted little backwater", the citizens of Oklahoma do that to themselves by continually voting in people that many in the rest of the country (even conservatives) find questionable at best. Also, it seems every time Oklahoma is in the national spotlight, it is for some outlandish statement made by aforementioned politicians, or the passage of a ridiculous abortion law, or some other religious-fueled controversy, i.e. Tulsa Zoo. Not exactly a rosy picture for outsiders looking in.

I always find myself defending Oklahoma from those who have never been there (or Texans) who do indeed try to claim that Oklahoma is all backwater hicks, radical conservatives and religious fanatics, because I know not all of Oklahoma is like that. But I will say it's getting harder and harder to defend lately.

[Ed W]

The "benighted little backwater" is one end of the spectrum, as it's descriptive of the xenophobic, insular attitude someone from outside the state can encounter.  We've seen it in this thread with the don't-let-the-door-hit-you-in-the-butt-on-your-way-out comments.  I ran into that one in my first months here.

But there's the other end of the spectrum too, and I couldn't say it more eloquently than this.  I sometimes consider that Oklahoma is in a kind of time-warp. We're attached to the modern world, but not really part of it.

Here's a piece from Fodor's Road Guide USA:

"Few visitors to Oklahoma leave without remarking on the friendliness of the people, who blend Southern hospitality with the openness found in the West. Many an out-of-state visitor driving in the western plains has been mystified by the number of total strangers who wave hello. "Oklahomans are what other people think Americans are like," Will Rogers said about his native state in the 1920s. "Oklahoma is the heart, it's the vital organ of our national existence.""

My father-in-law put it more succinctly.  He said that the people here are the nicest you'll ever meet - until they get behind the wheel of a car.  Then again, he never drove in Atlanta or New York.

It's possible that those xenophobes (for lack of a better term) are on the way out.  Despite the inadequacies of our education systems, our children are gaining a wider world view through the internet and its communication possibilities.  Rather than having a horizon that extends to the county line, theirs is practically unlimited.  I'd like to think that Will Rogers was being prophetic and he was describing our children.

[guido911]

The "benighted little backwater" is one end of the spectrum..

It would have been nice if you originally posted that instead of painting the entire state with that broad brush. And Azbad, I personally do not want you having anything to do with defending this state.

[azbadpuppy]

And Azbad, I personally do not want you having anything to do with defending this state.

Personally speaking, you don't have to worry about it. I only defend the decent people of the state.

[Ed W]

It would have been nice if you originally posted that instead of painting the entire state with that broad brush.

I think it's well-earned, Tony, because as the origin of this thread pointed out, Oklahoma does not like President Obama.  If I recall correctly, this state went even more to the right in the last presidential election than it did previously.  While the rest of the country moved toward the center, this state clearly did not.  That would seem to indicate that either everyone else is out of step with Oklahoma, or that the people of Oklahoma prefer to be contrarians.  There's maybe 3 million people in this state, and that makes it minuscule in national politics. 

While anecdotes are not data, there's a story that may be illustrative of the perception of Oklahoma on the larger stage.  I was involved in a discussion of bicycling advocacy with various people from across the country.  One of them, an influential member of a very large Midwestern coalition, was extremely condescending once he learned I was in Oklahoma.  He didn't like our senators or our politics (neither do I, but that's beside the point) and summarily dismissed anything I had to say because in his opinion, all Oklahomans are just like Senators Coburn and Inhofe.  Now, I'll be the last to defend those two, but the guy was so rude I promised that if I ever met him in person, he'd be the less-than-joyful recipient of a brand new broken nose.  Sadly, he's not alone in thinking that everyone here in Oklahoma is some kind of right wing nut case.

[SXSW]

While anecdotes are not data, there's a story that may be illustrative of the perception of Oklahoma on the larger stage.  I was involved in a discussion of bicycling advocacy with various people from across the country.  One of them, an influential member of a very large Midwestern coalition, was extremely condescending once he learned I was in Oklahoma.  He didn't like our senators or our politics (neither do I, but that's beside the point) and summarily dismissed anything I had to say because in his opinion, all Oklahomans are just like Senators Coburn and Inhofe.  Now, I'll be the last to defend those two, but the guy was so rude I promised that if I ever met him in person, he'd be the less-than-joyful recipient of a brand new broken nose.  Sadly, he's not alone in thinking that everyone here in Oklahoma is some kind of right wing nut case.

I would have no respect for someone like that.  There are all types of people in every state.  There may be more conservatives in Oklahoma (but oddly there are more registered Democrats than Republicans) but there are still plenty of moderates and liberals mainly in Tulsa, OKC, and Norman.  I may be liberal myself but I respect conservatives that practice fiscal responsibility and smaller government.  What I don't like are those far-right conservatives that we have plenty of (and so do most Southern states for that matter from Texas to South Carolina) that insist on blaming someone else for everything that is wrong without providing new solutions. 

I see Mary Fallin as one of those types, someone that will use buzz words like "socialism" and "ObamaCare" to further her conservative agenda and appeal to the many far-right voters in the rural and suburban areas of this state.  I think many will see past that though and hopefully elect Jari Askins instead.

[GG]

My wife and I were on a car trip today,  you know when you are in close confines and have to communicate.  She asked me who I was going to support for governor.  My wife is a conservative democrat and I'm a moderate republican, which in our state is a wash.  

I told her I'm officially undecided, but I'm leaning towards Jari Askins.  

I told her I like the idea of having a Democratic Governor to off set the crazy Republicans running the the Oklahoma House and Senate.  

Plus I think Jari Askins is smarter and a harder worker that Mary Fallin.  

I must disclose, I have contributed money to Mary Fallin in the past when she was running for  Lt. Governor, so I'm no virgin when it come political matters.

[Hoss]

Personally speaking, you don't have to worry about it. I only defend the decent people of the state.

Snap!

[Hoss]

My wife and I were on a car trip today,  you know when you are in close confines and have to communicate.  She asked me who I was going to support for governor.  My wife is a conservative democrat and I'm a moderate republican, which in our state is a wash.  

I told her I'm officially undecided, but I'm leaning towards Jari Askins.  

I told her I like the idea of having a Democratic Governor to off set the crazy Republicans running the the Oklahoma House and Senate.  

Plus I think Jari Askins is smarter and a harder worker that Mary Fallin.  

I must disclose, I have contributed money to Mary Fallin in the past when she was running for  Lt. Governor, so I'm no virgin when it come political matters.

Plus, doesn't Mary have that spectre of 'the affair' tied to her?  When did that happen, wasn't it back in the late nineties?

[waterboy]

SXSW, I applaud your attitude and I hope you can transfer it to the rest of us. At the very least to your age group. The city will only benefit from passionate, diverse opinion if we can only listen to each other instead of lecturing each other. My frustration is compounded by seeing unproductive behaviors repeated decade after decade and presented as though they are brand new thinking.

I do love my city (and my state), and my expectations for it have always been high. That is why I am so irritated with our current problems that seem so petty and political in nature. People like Kaiser and Zarrow give me hope.

[nathanm]

I see Mary Fallin as one of those types, someone that will use buzz words like "socialism" and "ObamaCare" to further her conservative agenda and appeal to the many far-right voters in the rural and suburban areas of this state.  I think many will see past that though and hopefully elect Jari Askins instead.

Yeah, if someone says "ObamaCare" in person, I immediately know they're a tool. If they then go on about "socialism," I know they're a fool. All these dog whistles make it easy to identify the folks who don't feel like engaging their brains.

[guido911]

Beyond that, the furor is just another example of some far right wingers seeming to be unable to make the connection that the same Constitution that guarantees them the right to bear arms also guarantees other people rights.

And along those lines, there is this:

http://www.dailygut.com/?i=4696