Global Warming/Climate Change/Global Weirding?

[Conan71]

So, that would mean it is not economically viable yet.  Hmmmm, maybe a little government funding would help move the process along?  Overcome the hurdles of investing in new technology with unknown returns.

Or just keep on letting big oil have their way and their subsidies to keep on doing what they been doing to us.

And if it were such a critical issue of 'national security' as the RWRE says when talking about ANWAR, then why would they not be doing it already.  Or a year or two ago, like we beat to death then?

I guess I would still submit that $100 per barrel oil is what is spurring drilling.  Back a couple years, when oil was at $30, you remember then how the Baker drill rig count was dropping.  Late 2008.  I guess home drilled oil wasn't such a matter of national security to Exxon, Chevron, or BP back then.  Or else, being the good corporate citizens they are, there would have been MORE drilling going on - in the name of national security.

Rig count history.
http://intelligencepress.com/features/bakerhughes/


Would one of those projects be coal bed methane?  Or shale oil?

That's the kick in the pants though.  Biodiesel, ethanol, coal to liquids, CNG etc. are nowhere new technologies.  Most of them have been around about as long as we've been using petroleum for fuel.  In a nutshell, it seems to be the cost of extracting the usable fuel and up to around gas getting to $3.50 or so a gallon, it just makes better economic sense to keep using petroleum.

As well, there are undesirable byproducts of biofuels production you don't have near as much of with petroleum which also creates yet one more disposal problem.  I wish there was a single magic solution, but with every benefit of a certain technology, there's just as many drawbacks it seems.

[heironymouspasparagus]

We have come full circle yet again!!

There IS a magic solution and it has been discussed here as well as around the nation for the entire time of my life and well beyond.  Quick recap; in about 1910 the technology existed - and was perfected - to extract about 50 gallons per ton of ethanol from biomass.  (I would submit that we could easily develop technology to increase that).  

Now, where to get enough biomass?  Well, that too has been a known factor for at least the last 200 years - back when George Washington was the single biggest producer of that magical biomass in this nation!  It was, and is, marijuana.  The previous threads about this showed the production and the economic viability of growing pot for fuel.  Couple of our plains states growing pot would be WAY more than enough!

Yeah, switchgrass is pretty good, too, but nothing approaches good old pot for cost effectiveness.  Nothing.  Not even our cheap oil and natural gas we enjoy today - even at $100 per barrel.

So why haven't we used this massively abundant resource??  Well, look to DuPont, Hearst, and big oil.

All this wringing of hands and fretting and stewing is an unnecessary distraction from solving the problem.  First, get Congress out of the pocket of big oil  (can you spell Jim Inhofe to the tune of over 1.5 million?).  Then step back and allow a little bit of personal liberty coupled with a big old dose of "Yankee Ingenuity" and there would have been NO energy crisis!  EVER!!!

And with a little bit of anaerobic digestion, the extremely DESIRABLE byproducts of bio-fuels production become feedstock for many new items, including building materials (replace slash pine for OSB), fertilizers, animal feed, textiles, and going back to the basics - hemp rope!  

But we can't have that, because it would not allow the 1%'ers their well deserved position in life!


Plus after a hard week's work making fuel to save the world (clean burning ethanol - global warming problem solved), one could sit back and roll up a nice big fat dooby!

[Gaspar]

Miscanthus delivers 3 times as much ethanol, and doesn't make people as lazy.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Except for that whole non-native invasive plant thing.  Can you spell "kudzu"?

Yeah, it gives about 10 tons per acre.  And marijuana, which is native to this continent gives from 12 to 14 tons per acres.

Hands down hemp is best.

Switchgrass could be a contender at 6 to 8 tons per acre, but requires much more fertilization.
http://www.cias.wisc.edu/crops-and-livestock/switchgrass-production-for-biomass/

[Red Arrow]

Except for that whole non-native invasive plant thing.  Can you spell "kudzu"?

Yeah, it gives about 10 tons per acre.  And marijuana, which is native to this continent gives from 12 to 14 tons per acres.

Hands down hemp is best.

Switchgrass could be a contender at 6 to 8 tons per acre, but requires much more fertilization.
http://www.cias.wisc.edu/crops-and-livestock/switchgrass-production-for-biomass/

But, but, but,.... if we grew hemp someone might make a rope from it and do nasty things.     

Actually, synthetic rope is usually superior for most applications except UV exposure.

[TulsaMoon]

If oil were not such a fungible commodity, it might make sense to worry about the source.  As it is, why not use up all their oil first.  It leaves local oil in the ground like a savings account.

/Agree...

Look at helium, its a good lesson to learn and understand when when comes to other resources.

http://www.boston.com/news/science/articles/2010/10/17/scientists_warn_worlds_supply_of_helium_close_to_depletion/

[heironymouspasparagus]

I have a length of rope that I bought about 20 years ago at Burgess hardware.  It is about 1 1/2 " diameter and the really strange thing is that it is woven in a square shape.  Can't remember his name, but the guy that ran Burgess until they closed told me that his dad (if I remember right) had gotten a bunch of that right after WWII and it had been something used by the Navy.  Was made of hemp.

I have been using small pieces of it for decorative trim applications.   Wish I had a large spool of the stuff.  Stands up outdoors for 8 to 10 years with no treatment before it need replacement.  Good stuff.  Interesting, too.

Too bad we have become so insane in this country that the good things God has given us have become "bad", or "incorrect", or illegal.  Shame on us for rejecting Him and His gifts!

Some synthetics.  Depends on application, of course.  But NONE have so minimal an adverse impact on our world, oil usage, balance of payments, and economic development and activity.


Helium;  Oh, NO!!  No more chipmunk voice parties!!!!

[Red Arrow]

I have a length of rope that I bought about 20 years ago at Burgess hardware.  It is about 1 1/2 " diameter and the really strange thing is that it is woven in a square shape.  Can't remember his name, but the guy that ran Burgess until they closed told me that his dad (if I remember right) had gotten a bunch of that right after WWII and it had been something used by the Navy.  Was made of hemp.

I have been using small pieces of it for decorative trim applications.   Wish I had a large spool of the stuff.  Stands up outdoors for 8 to 10 years with no treatment before it need replacement.  Good stuff.  Interesting, too.

It's good stuff if you keep it dry.  Hemp is/was also better than the more common manila rope.  Hard to keep rope dry in marine service.  I haven't checked the numbers lately but I believe you can get the strength of that 1-1/2" rope in a significantly smaller size in synthetic.  The world is a trade-off.  I think in many cases that synthetic rope is a good trade.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Hemp worked well for thousands of years.  Yeah, there are places where I definitely prefer synthetic, but not all.  And even George Washington was a huge advocate of hemp!  If we aren't gonna listen to the foremost of our founding fathers, who ARE we gonna listen to???

Don't know about the strength of my little rope.  Would never put much of a load on it, since it is about 70 years old!  (I think it is pre-war manufacture.)  Just like I wouldn't count on a Model A for a cross country road trip, even with a complete rebuild/overhaul!!  (Family member had T and A and told me about trips from Kansas City to Tulsa in early '30s.  Very much more adventure than I want for routine trip.)

[Red Arrow]

Hemp worked well for thousands of years.  Yeah, there are places where I definitely prefer synthetic, but not all.  And even George Washington was a huge advocate of hemp!  If we aren't gonna listen to the foremost of our founding fathers, who ARE we gonna listen to???

Don't know about the strength of my little rope.  Would never put much of a load on it, since it is about 70 years old!  (I think it is pre-war manufacture.)  Just like I wouldn't count on a Model A for a cross country road trip, even with a complete rebuild/overhaul!!  (Family member had T and A and told me about trips from Kansas City to Tulsa in early '30s.  Very much more adventure than I want for routine trip.)

A lot of things worked well for thousands of years because we had nothing better.  George Washington didn't have nylon, kevlar, polypropylene.... to choose among. How do you know he wouldn't have chosen something synthetic?  The choice did NOT exist.

If you are just using rope for decoration, its strength doesn't matter.  I know that when we had a boat on the Chesapeake Bay I didn't want to worry about the strength of our anchor rope in bad weather.

[heironymouspasparagus]

I suspect he would have chosen the synthetics if they had been available for many applications.  But I doubt he would have thrown out the old just for the sake of padding the pockets and power of DuPont, William Randolph Hearst, and J Edgar Hoover.  But maybe he would.  Hard to say.

[Red Arrow]

I suspect he would have chosen the synthetics if they had been available for many applications.  But I doubt he would have thrown out the old just for the sake of padding the pockets and power of DuPont, William Randolph Hearst, and J Edgar Hoover.  But maybe he would.  Hard to say.

I believe he would have been a big stake holder in synthetics.  He could well have pushed synthetic rope over the old relliable stuff if it put more money in his pocket.

Isn't this fun, making up whatever you want about what people who have been dead a long time would do with a modern situation to support your position.   You're a good teacher.  Maybe you should seek employment in Madison, WI. 

[heironymouspasparagus]

George was a leader in many things.  Marijuana, whisky, leading the country.  Very progressive kind of guy.  Acquaintance of Jefferson, who was also at forefront of many things agricultural.  I wonder if they knew Jethro Tull (another progressive farmer - different continent), or their paths ever crossed?

And yes, to answer your question.  It is.

[nathanm]

I'm beating a dead horse, I know, but I couldn't resist sharing this image:

[we vs us]

I'm sorry, Nate.  If you can't come up with a consistent term to describe the phenomenon, then it isn't happening and I won't be paying attention to any of your so-called "data," or "charts," or "graphs," or that fellow "Al Gore." 

Because after all, science is just like politics:  totally and utterly spinnable.   And therefore utterly untrustworthy.