The New Mosque

[Ed W]

Allow me to belabor a point, Guido, but there's something I simply don't understand.  Are you saying that the sensibilities of the families who lost loved ones at the World Trade Centers over ride the rights of the Muslim community to build and worship in a converted Burlington Coat Factory building? 

[nathanm]

Here is an interesting article (imho) on the subject. Obama weighing in on this issue is when it became really politicized.

You hadn't noticed this thing going on for a week before Obama said a word?

[guido911]

Allow me to belabor a point, Guido, but there's something I simply don't understand.  Are you saying that the sensibilities of the families who lost loved ones at the World Trade Centers over ride the rights of the Muslim community to build and worship in a converted Burlington Coat Factory building? 

Come on Ed, I have written twice in this thread that I absolutely do not care where the mosque goes. Just that if people want to protest because its location is insensitive, they should not be denigrated.

[guido911]

You hadn't noticed this thing going on for a week before Obama said a word?

I was aware of the controversy, but it really took off after the pres commented on Friday at a Ramadan dinner, then more so after he clarified his comment the following day.

[Conan71]

Actually this has been kicking around for a couple of months at least. The Constitution doesn't address poor taste which is what this falls under. I find it only mildly Funny how liberals get in a twist about a cross out in the desert which was set there to honor deceased war vets yet they are ready to fall all over themselves to dismiss the notion that a 15 story mosque can be construed as a provocative symbol. It's their right but do they have to build it there?

[Red Arrow]

Personally, I'm offended by the Catholic Church, but I don't think that gives me the right to tell them where they may or may not build a church.

You do have the right to protest them building a church.

[Red Arrow]

The Imam says he wants to build the community center / mosque as a bridge to Americans.  A lot of Americans don't see it that way for a variety of reasons.  The Muslim community frequently says that Americans need to be more considerate of Muslim sensitivities.  It works both ways.

[custosnox]

Of course the media spin on it doesn't help.  After all, would it even be a real issue if the media hadn't started calling it "ground zero mosque"?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upshot/20100816/pl_yblog_upshot/news-outlets-split-in-describing-mosque

[guido911]

Of course the media spin on it doesn't help.  After all, would it even be a real issue if the media hadn't started calling it "ground zero mosque"?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upshot/20100816/pl_yblog_upshot/news-outlets-split-in-describing-mosque

Good point.

[heironymouspasparagus]

The Daily News guy says;
Only this debate isn't about correctness. Or freedom of religion. Or even the idea that if this mosque doesn't get built, it will mean we are now deciding about religious freedom in this country one neighborhood at a time. It is about common sense.

And then he says;
More than that, it is about the constituency of Sept. 11.

To prove that it actually is about political correctness.  And just pure crap!  We are not in Saudi, or Iran, or Afghanistan.  We are in the United States of America!  Are we going to keep it that way??

The disparagement of the Murrah analogy is disingenuous.  Not to mention just plain lame.  According to that, when I take the lunatic ravings of Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Elohim City, and the "Newt" with indignation and consider them insensitive, it must be taken lightly, if at all.  But if the scripted, incited outrage over Muslims wanting to build a mosque is aired, then everyone should just hide their heads and go away to hide somewhere and just give way to "sensitivity".  Blech!!

That's the American way all right.

I'm thinking we ought to go ahead and use eminent domain to take the existing mosques away and turn them into fitness centers or maybe some more Starbucks?  That would keep them off the island of Manhattan completely.  Would that be far enough away??

Or we could just drive them all away.  Send them back to the desert.  Let's get Randy Brogdon's buddies to put on their sheets and pointy hats and give them a midnight visit.  Maybe they could burn a cross on the sidewalk in front of the mosque?  Maybe that would assuage the "sensitivity"??

[nathanm]

Actually this has been kicking around for a couple of months at least. The Constitution doesn't address poor taste which is what this falls under. I find it only mildly Funny how liberals get in a twist about a cross out in the desert which was set there to honor deceased war vets yet they are ready to fall all over themselves to dismiss the notion that a 15 story mosque can be construed as a provocative symbol. It's their right but do they have to build it there?

I don't think you'll find a "liberal" upset about a church building a cross. You might find one upset with a government doing the same. I wouldn't be too pleased with my government spending money to build a minaret, either.

BTW, I'm sorry I got so fighty earlier. It's just that this, unlike most political issues, cuts right to the core of who we are as a nation. I don't want to live in a place where people aren't free to practice their religion, and I really don't like it when people imply that all Muslims are equivalent to terrorists simply for being Muslim any more than I like it when folks like Bill Maher claim that all Catholics are complicit in the pedophilia of some priests. We need to be more tolerant, not less. Lead by example, you know?

[Conan71]

Nathan, how would you feel if you found out the gov't has spent money on mosques? I'm trying to find credible sources which back this up, but apparently, our state department has helped fund the restoration of a couple of mosques overseas as part of a program to help preserve historically significant sites. I've got two issues with this: for one why are we such a freaking donor nation in the first place? Secondly, what is the federal gov't doing spending money on a place of worship?

[custosnox]

Nathan, how would you feel if you found out the gov't has spent money on mosques? I'm trying to find credible sources which back this up, but apparently, our state department has helped fund the restoration of a couple of mosques overseas as part of a program to help preserve historically significant sites. I've got two issues with this: for one why are we such a freaking donor nation in the first place? Secondly, what is the federal gov't doing spending money on a place of worship?

Personally, I would have mixed feelings on that.  On one hand, you right, we shoudln't be footing the bill for something overseas.  We have enough domestic financial problems to deal with that we should let others handle their own for a while.  On the second, while I strongly support seperation of church and state, I don't think that should be used as a reason to withhold funds for historical restoration.  History is important, regadless if it is found in an old hotel or in a house of worship.

[swake]

Nathan, how would you feel if you found out the gov't has spent money on mosques? I'm trying to find credible sources which back this up, but apparently, our state department has helped fund the restoration of a couple of mosques overseas as part of a program to help preserve historically significant sites. I've got two issues with this: for one why are we such a freaking donor nation in the first place? Secondly, what is the federal gov't doing spending money on a place of worship?

Well, I haven't heard about this and therefore don't know specifics, but an easy argument can be made that to fight Islamic terrorism we need to help moderate Islam to prosper.  I would be very careful that we should not have moderate Muslims look like American puppets however. It would be interesting to see how and why this is happening, if it is.

[nathanm]

Nathan, how would you feel if you found out the gov't has spent money on mosques? I'm trying to find credible sources which back this up, but apparently, our state department has helped fund the restoration of a couple of mosques overseas as part of a program to help preserve historically significant sites.

It depends. Was it done for historical preservation or to help promote Islam? I'd generally prefer we'd spend historical preservation funds here in our own country. We have plenty of historical sites in need of saving, after all.

I don't mind when religious institutions get money from the government in a way that is neutral to religion. In other words, they aren't getting the money because of the religion, but because of the social services they provide. Government should not be promoting religion, it should be blind to it. It wouldn't be fair if people didn't get help merely because they are religious, just like it wouldn't be OK if they got help merely because they are religious. If we had an ongoing problem with Government funding religion, I would probably think differently on the subject.