The Grille on Riverwalk Phase II

[Hawkins]

NOW things are going to get real interesting.

Featured on 2 News last night, the Grille (formally known as McDermott's Grill) is now open in Phase II.

You actually have to drive around existing construction to get to this $1 Million plus investment. It is the same owners as Magoo's from what I understand, but this is a more upscale version, with live band stages both indoors and outdoors, a dance floor, pool, darts, shuffleboard, and a variety of restaurant food (hamburgers to lobster).

Nothing in between Los Cabos and Riverwalk Movies had turned a profit (except perhaps the Cigar Box) in five years, and now this huge puppy is open and ready--positioned even further down the parking lot, past current construction of a "rodeo" dance club.

This, IMO, is the equivalent of a troop surge in Afghanistan with nuclear weapons. The extreme amount of money invested in this operation--at a site plagued with bankruptcies and shattered business dreams, in the middle of a vicious recession, makes me want to break out the popcorn.

I guess we're going to find out if the old saying is true, "If you build it, they will come."

Here is their website:

http://mcdermottsgrille.com/mainpage.html

The website says they are going to open at 11:00am everyday, but given the ghost-town atmosphere of the Riverwalk at any location north of Los Cabos before 5:00pm, I just don't see how in the world that could work.

All that money!! Its like putting it on a roulette table that is two-thirds red, and betting on black.

All those pool tables, competing for adult entertainment when there is a huge, multi-gazillion dollar economy-sucking casino directly across the river!!

Monumental risk here.

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[Conan71]

You are a real RWC hater, aren't you? Instead of waiting to see if it fails, why don't you patronize them instead?  Jim McDermott has done well for himself, give him some credit. That and the Tulsa economy isn't near as bad as the rest of the nation.

[Hawkins]

You are a real RWC hater, aren't you? Instead of waiting to see if it fails, why don't you patronize them instead?  Jim McDermott has done well for himself, give him some credit. That and the Tulsa economy isn't near as bad as the rest of the nation.

I never said I wanted him to fail. And I know he has made his money and is a smart local businessman.

That is why I am so baffled by this move. He's opening in a horrible location, at the wrong time of the year for the Riverwalk with summer ending, and during a recession.

One option I guess would be that he successfully supplants Los Cabos' business down to the other end, or he will have to draw in twice the crowd the Riverwalk is used to pulling.

Can this really be done? Is it the lure of the Los Cabos success that drives men to make these dangerous decisions?

I'm just commenting, not condemning anyone here.

I really wanted to see river development succeed, but the Riverwalk has had so many snags it has frustrated me.

Today, I read the history of the San Antonio River Walk, and learned a few things.

According to their timeline, we have another 40 years before the Jenks Riverwalk becomes successful. And the Jenks Riverwalk is not located adjacent to downtown, like the San Antonio River Walk, so potentially, without drawing a lunchtime business crowd, it may never take off.

As a fan of South Tulsa I never thought I'd say this, but unless the Riverwalk is pulled up and moved to downtown (or they build a new river that runs along 169 and 71st street ) this thing just isn't likely to survive.

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[Stone]

that's why i've been saying turn the whole place into a outlet mall.

[BKDotCom]

Nothing in between Los Cabos and Riverwalk Movies had turned a profit (except perhaps the Cigar Box) in five years...

Gina & Guiseppie's and Melting Pot?
Also, the Sub Station has been there from the beginning.

Is Lewis and Clark Outfitters still planned for phase II ?

[stageidea]

Gina & Guiseppie's and Melting Pot?
Also, the Sub Station has been there from the beginning.

Is Lewis and Clark Outfitters still planned for phase II ?

FunHouse has been there awhile as well.

[Conan71]

Damn the facts...

[DTowner]

I don't think you have to be a River Walk hater to observe that it has a high restaurant failure rate and that any significant investment there is a big risk.  I know three people who opened and closed restaurants there.  All said weekday foot traffic was non-existent and weather/season played a huge factor for the evenings.  Los Cabos does well, but doesn't seem to have much spillover effect on the others.

Individually, you can probably go through every failed RWC restaurant and take issue with concept, execution and/or management.  Collectively, however, that's a lot of failure in one area.

I rarely go to RWC simply because it is way too far for me to drive to eat a hamburger or Tex-Mex.  However, I want it to be successful because success would encourage Tulsa to make a serious investment in river develpment.  Unfortunately, based on its history to date, I think RWC's viability is still an open issue.

[TheArtist]

   I think it will be more viable once its all done.  I also think it was a mistake to have The Grille open clear at the other end and not at least have construction going on between the two parts so that the "walk" along the whole thing is interesting.  Can you even walk between one end and the other,  or is there no "walk" there yet?  

  I also think the RW is evolving towards, and should have anyway, an entertainment/restaurant/younger crowd/destination type place.  Some of the shops that opened there early on I was like...."Nobody is going here to shop for this." A mix of teen, young preppy adult, type stuff will do well imo.  A Lewis and Clark Outfitters and cafe/bookstore would fit the bill.  

 There are 2 reasons I would go to a place like the Riverwalk.

  When this situation arises...

"Where do you want to go eat? I don't know, lets go some place different, and it would be nice to get out a bit and go for a walk.... OH, lets go to the Riverwalk."

or this....

We have friends/company visiting and need to entertain them for a few days and want to show them around Tulsa.  The Riverwalk gets on the list with (Downtown, Brookside and Cherry Street, and the Utica Square area including Philbrook).  Those are the options, plus perhaps a casino, your not gonna take people to the mall or 71st for goodness sakes.  You have breakfast, lunch and dinner, the times in between, plus something to do in the evening,,, you can run out of things to do and places to show people rather quickly in this town.  The Riverwalk, especially once its all done, is another nice place to have a stroll, eat, drink, etc.

 Other than those two instances, thats pretty much it for me and the people I know. I am also suprised at the number of people who have never been to the Riverwalk, and or dont even know it exist.  But that seems to be par for the course in this town.  

[Cats Cats Cats]

I don't think you have to be a River Walk hater to observe that it has a high restaurant failure rate and that any significant investment there is a big risk.  I know three people who opened and closed restaurants there.  All said weekday foot traffic was non-existent and weather/season played a huge factor for the evenings.  Los Cabos does well, but doesn't seem to have much spillover effect on the others.

Individually, you can probably go through every failed RWC restaurant and take issue with concept, execution and/or management.  Collectively, however, that's a lot of failure in one area.

I rarely go to RWC simply because it is way too far for me to drive to eat a hamburger or Tex-Mex.  However, I want it to be successful because success would encourage Tulsa to make a serious investment in river develpment.  Unfortunately, based on its history to date, I think RWC's viability is still an open issue.

I live in Jenks and I hardly ever go except for going to the movies down there.  I went to go see a 9:30 movie and there was about 8 people in the theater and probably only saw 20 or 30 people in the theater at about 9:00.  The Riverwalk on the theater end was dead (as it should be since only the boat bar is open now).

[stageidea]

I live in Jenks and I hardly ever go except for going to the movies down there.  I went to go see a 9:30 movie and there was about 8 people in the theater and probably only saw 20 or 30 people in the theater at about 9:00.  The Riverwalk on the theater end was dead (as it should be since only the boat bar is open now).

I have to agree with activity in the theater.  Every time I have gone there is generally nobody around.  Hence it is usually my first choice for going to a movie. 

[Hawkins]

Gina & Guiseppie's and Melting Pot?
Also, the Sub Station has been there from the beginning.

Is Lewis and Clark Outfitters still planned for phase II ?

Sub Station has been closed for over a year. There is no quick food option open there any longer. Gary's Grill was the first casualty.

A Subway has opened in the strip center before the Riverwalk entrance. That is the closest fast food option from the center.

Gina & Guiseppies, Melting Pot and Fun House have survived, but I would bet that (as I stated) their corporate taxes at the end of each year do not reflect a profit.

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I'm rooting for The Grille to hit it big, I just think its a tough gamble.

Spoke with another associate today that suggested that these guys (McDermott and his partners) have the resources to survive a couple of terrible years along the way toward paving a successful operation. Other Riverwalk startups (like JooJoo Bees) did not.

Question is, will the center itself build up, or continue to slide like it has over the last few years.

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[SXSW]

Question is, will the center itself build up, or continue to slide like it has over the last few years.

I would say a lot depends on how the success of the Village on Main.  It seems to be on track and will provide a place for new restaurants and shops with better access just across the bridge on Main St.  What happens with the River District could also have an impact.  That is why I think the River District should focus more, or solely, on new residential development and create something unique like New Urbanism. 

[Red Arrow]

One of the issues (?) of the Riverwalk is that it seems disconnected from Jenks.  The road in is not difficult but somehow it seems like going in someone's private driveway.  Then your view is a parking lot and the back of most of the buildings, not very inviting.  This might be a place for building with two front sides.  I drive home from work through Jenks on Main St.  The Riverwalk is "over there somewhere".  The River District, being on the south side of the turnpike may have similar perception problems, kind of like being on the "wrong" side of the IDL.  The Village on Main has a good chance for success, in my opinion, because it will be "right there" even though it is several blocks from the older part of downtown.

Edit: add photos (I hope)
The River View strip center is easy to see and see what's there.  The store fronts are visible.

[BKDotCom]

Gary's Grill was the first casualty.

Individually, you can probably go through every failed RWC restaurant and take issue with concept, execution and/or management.  Collectively, however, that's a lot of failure in one area.

Gary's Grill definitely falls under the poorly executed column