(PROJECT) One Place Tower

[Townsend]

It is not. I have heard, but can't say.

I'd heard sports bar a while back.  I'll go with that for now.

[carltonplace]

Look what I found, a website for the project.
http://www.1tulsa.com/

And it has renderings for phases 3 and 4.

The City View Building:
From the website this is the hotel with some apartments and condos. About 15 floors.


Legacy Building:
Office building with lofts at the top

Street level retail is not looking as promising in these renderings.

[carltonplace]

I believe there is a fantastic little art deco building on that block.  Really hope it's preserved, or at least the facade is.

Those two buildings were for sale as a package. The art deco builinding is great..I agree. I also like the more modern one on the corner.

The sign is for a residential realtor and there are plenty of construction vehicles parked there.

Thanks Grizz...I guess I should read the sign more closely before I post.

[swake]

The site shows retail space in three of the four buildings (not the hotel) with the Northwestern building having two floors of retail. The site also seems to indicate that all the retail space is under contract already. It's very possible the hotel might also have the standard first floor bar/restaurant/coffee shop/convenience store that hotels often have in addition to the standalone retail.

One Place Tower: 17 floors, retail on first and the rest office space
Northwestern Building: 5 floors, the first two retail and the other three office
City View Building: ~15 floors with a mixture of hotel, apartments and lofts
Legacy Building: ~8 floors with lofts of the top floor, retail on the bottom and office space in between. This looks to be the only available office space.

[DTowner]

The site shows retail space in three of the four buildings (not the hotel) with the Northwestern building having two floors of retail. The site also seems to indicate that all the retail space is under contract already. It's very possible the hotel might also have the standard first floor bar/restaurant/coffee shop/convenience store that hotels often have in addition to the standalone retail.

One Place Tower: 17 floors, retail on first and the rest office space
Northwestern Building: 5 floors, the first two retail and the other three office
City View Building: ~15 floors with a mixture of hotel, apartments and lofts
Legacy Building: ~8 floors with lofts of the top floor, retail on the bottom and office space in between. This looks to be the only available office space.

Thanks for posting.  I did not realize the hotel would be combined with apartments - I thought that was going to be a spearate building.  I am also surprised the hotel will only have 90 rooms.

[TheArtist]

Street level retail is not looking as promising in these renderings.

Doesn't look very pedestrian friendly either. 

[sgrizzle]

Doesn't look very pedestrian friendly either. 

There is supposed the be a courtyard in the middle. They may be trying to force all of the foot traffic in there.

The hill may play a factor in this too, as far as what floors are what.

[TheArtist]

There is supposed the be a courtyard in the middle. They may be trying to force all of the foot traffic in there.

The hill may play a factor in this too, as far as what floors are what.

True, but they aren't going to attract anyone to the place from anywhere else in downtown if the whole development just looks like flat walls and windows.  Hopefully there will be some more detail or character of some sort at ground level.  That side will also be in the sun most of the day so will not be pleasant to walk past with the sun blaring on you from one side and reflecting off the wall on your other side.  On a positive note, I do like the "ingressed" corner entrance, good for rainy days.  What could help the whole thing is to have some canopies or awnings for shade and a little protection from the rain, and for visual interest.  All of which would help entice people to walk around the area.

[DowntownDan]

Will the two floor retail be like an indoor mall setting with a few main entrances, but the store fronts being indoors?  I can see that working.  If that's the case, they can use the glass walls for signage and still look pretty neat.  I guess its hard to determine what it's going to look like when its done.  From the drawings you would not guess that there would be any retail, but the reports are clearly out there that there is retail.  I guess we'll just have to see how it turns out.

[carltonplace]

Will the two floor retail be like an indoor mall setting with a few main entrances, but the store fronts being indoors?  I can see that working.  If that's the case, they can use the glass walls for signage and still look pretty neat.  I guess its hard to determine what it's going to look like when its done.  From the drawings you would not guess that there would be any retail, but the reports are clearly out there that there is retail.  I guess we'll just have to see how it turns out.

For some reason I was expecting street level retail to be more like this:

[Townsend]

For some reason I was expecting street level retail to be more like this:

I agree.  Maybe the planners might worry that the people walking outside would put huge dents on the grills of the vehicles speeding down DT streets to get home to the suburbs.

[Red Arrow]

For some reason I was expecting street level retail to be more like this:

Or this: (go to the link to see the image)
http://goo.gl/maps/v2d8

[TheArtist]

Or this: (go to the link to see the image)
http://goo.gl/maps/v2d8

Good example of how to do it right.  Awnings, trees, lots of entrances and different places per block, lots of windows, and covered entrance areas.  Is that really SO hard to do?

I don't think a "sequestered" shopping area in the center will work as well as it could (or at all) if the rest of the development, at least on one side, were well connected to other parts of downtown via the pedestrian.  When people are walking in an urban area they stay on the pedestrian friendly corridors.  If you walk past a street and look down it and its not an attractive place to walk... well, nobody goes down those streets, your going to stay on the one your on, or turn back.  Good, pedestrian friendly streets reinforce each other.  I guess they don't care if this development is connected to the rest of downtown and are perhaps only counting on having people visit the retail and shops there before and after events.  Was reading an article on the Power and Light District in KC.  It's basically fake urbanism.  Had a lot of traffic when it was new, and during events, but when the "new" wore off and the "fake" settled in,  well now the development is a BILLION dollars in the hole.  It was definitely one of those cases where if a street or area is not an attractive place, such that if your the first and only one there, and its not an enjoyable, attractive, comfortable place to be... it's going to fail, for every place sooner or later will (usually every morning) be empty.   

If I am in the core of downtown and walking around and look down the street towards this development, from what I see in those renderings, I don't think I am going to want to walk down there to it.  They are already kind of isolated as it is from the core for there are still some gaps and akward pedestrian spots on the way to this development.   

[TheTed]

 Someone in the know posted that we were trying for a p&l type development by the ballpark. hopefully that strategy has been revised.

[rdj]

...

Was reading an article on the Power and Light District in KC.  It's basically fake urbanism.  Had a lot of traffic when it was new, and during events, but when the "new" wore off and the "fake" settled in,  well now the development is a BILLION dollars in the hole.  It was definitely one of those cases where if a street or area is not an attractive place, such that if your the first and only one there, and its not an enjoyable, attractive, comfortable place to be... it's going to fail, for every place sooner or later will (usually every morning) be empty.   

...

You are correct that the P&L District has not met its income projections.  However, they are not giving up on it.  The developer, David Cordish, announced two weeks ago plans to develop $70MM 300 unit rental apartment development in the district.  One building is a rehab and the other is new construction (23 story's 250 units).  KCMO kicked in $8MM for the project.

Yes, Cordish was courted by members of the Ballpark Authority and the Mayor during the development of the BID to fund the ballpark.  He had to be begged to visit Tulsa.  Obviously, it didn't come to fruition.  Multiple reasons for that to be the case.

Doing a development like Cordish and his company specialize in has its advantages and its disadvantages.  On the plus side it develops a large area of land and buildings in a relatively quick time frame and they are able to master plan the area to accomplish things like cohesive signage and strategic and fairly inconspicuous parking.  The downside is they can appear to be homogeneous and contrived.  Additionally, one individual controls the area so if they are hard to work with or go under it causes huge issues.

In my experience, I was initially underwhelmed with the P&L District.  However, I visited last year and thought it had aged nicely in just a short time frame.  I was a bit jealous of the wonderful grocery store, the AMC theater, the outdoor stage and the great parking options.  I was not as impressed by the patrons, but that's just my elitism coming out.