State Question 744

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Here's one way to vote no:

What!!! We have to send our ballots to California to be counted? 

[RecycleMichael]

I think we agree on more than we disagree. Thank you.

Yes. Spending more money doesn't always relate to better. We taxpayers need to make sure that the money is well spent. We should insist on reasonable oversight and sometimes needed audits on all levels of spending.

Our legislature needs to hear that we the voters have a different set of priorities this time. There are many problems, but I believe that good schools help solve many of the others. Businesses will relocate to states with better schools and bring jobs with them. Crime rates go down when the populace is better educated. Higher education will have students better prepared to succeed in college.

I also know that this forum is filled with people who are voting no ( and many of you always vote no). I also see how many of the people and organizations I respect helping to fund the no campaign. My only hope is that some of you agree with me and give our public schools a chance.

Remember, this bill doesn't put unreasonable demands on state funding. It only funds it to the regional average.  

[nathanm]

A no vote means that you are satisfied with the way Oklahoma spends its money. A yes vote changes everything and takes care of the children. How can any of you vote no?

No, a no vote means that I don't think that spending should be enshrined in the state Constitution. Look where that sort of thing has gotten California! I am all for increased school funding, I just think the benefits are outweighed by the inflexibility inherent in a Constitutional amendment.

Moreover, our state tends to be countercyclical, so when other states are running out of money, we tend to not be, and vice versa. Using the surrounding states to set the bar seems unwise in that situation.

Obviously, the current situation is unsustainable. Districts like Jenks, who have mostly new buildings, requiring less maintenance and having a lower operating cost, can dedicate more funds to the actual educational programs. Districts like Tulsa, who are saddled with ancient buildings that need constant maintenance and have a higher cost just to keep the school building open can't dedicate as much to salaries, books, and the like.

[Gaspar]

A no vote means that you are satisfied with the way Oklahoma spends its money. A yes vote changes everything and takes care of the children. How can any of you vote no?

I love your passion but the above phrase is not correct. 

A no vote means that we continue to be DISSATISFIED with the way Oklahoma spends OUR money.  A yes vote changes nothing when the sponsors offer no provisions on how the money is spent.

I am all for increasing funding for education, if legislation is offered with reasonable guidelines as to how the money is to be spent.  Is that so hard? 

Reward teachers that teach better.  Reward schools for higher test scores.  Reward improvement, innovation, and success.  I will fund performance.  I will not subsidize failure in the spirit of "taking care of the children."

[Conan71]

No, a no vote means that I don't think that spending should be enshrined in the state Constitution. Look where that sort of thing has gotten California! I am all for increased school funding, I just think the benefits are outweighed by the inflexibility inherent in a Constitutional amendment.

Moreover, our state tends to be countercyclical, so when other states are running out of money, we tend to not be, and vice versa. Using the surrounding states to set the bar seems unwise in that situation.

Obviously, the current situation is unsustainable. Districts like Jenks, who have mostly new buildings, requiring less maintenance and having a lower operating cost, can dedicate more funds to the actual educational programs. Districts like Tulsa, who are saddled with ancient buildings that need constant maintenance and have a higher cost just to keep the school building open can't dedicate as much to salaries, books, and the like.

Actually, a quick Google search reveals starting salary for a teacher in the Jenks system to be $3000 less than TPS.  Jenks and TPS both list their "average" teacher pay in the $38K range.  Tulsa also pays up to $409 a month for health insurance coverage which I'm also assuming would be average.  TPS may well have more layers of administration and support due to their buildings being spread out over a much larger area.

Jenks' building inventory is largely made up of facilities which are 20+ years old.  Aside from the PAC, some stadium improvements and additions to the Frank Herald Gym, the bulk of the main HS campus was there when I started 6th grade at Jenks 33 years ago. 

http://www.tulsaschools.org/depts/hr/cb/payteach.shtm

While a reasonable premise on your part, you fail to recognize that our suburban schools tend to have a very high parental participation rate in the educational process.

[Gaspar]

While a reasonable premise on your part, you fail to recognize that our suburban schools tend to have a very high parental participation rate in the educational process.

That's actually an interesting topic in itself.  I recently attended my daughter's back to school night at Jenks.  I was impressed to see that every parent for every child was there.  Both the father and the mother.  There was only one child who's father did not attend, and that was because he was fighting in Afghanistan.

Every father signed up for one of the "Donuts With Dads" breakfasts where you come in with donuts and read to the kids.  The wife of the soldier said that her husband would be interested in participating too, so we arranged for him to attend via webcam for his "Donuts With Dads" day.

Two things impressed me.  The first was the total lack of single parent families.  The second was that every father attended, even though it was a chore to get from the office, to the house, and then to the school in time.  It was a diverse group with quite a few non-English speaking parents, fast food workers, a mechanic and a few suits. 

I was also impressed with the technology in my daughter's class room.  A big-screen touch-screen monitor has replaced the chalk-board giving the teacher the ability to write, and control multimedia presentations from the screen.  My daughter at one point went to the board and wrote her name on the screen with her finger.  The teacher could then slide her written name to a side of the screen and make room for the next student.  I had no idea there was this type of technology available in the first grade.

Last week I went to lunch with my daughter in the cafeteria.  At every little table there were at least two or three moms or dads who had stopped by to have lunch with their kids.  I was amazed and very pleased at the amount of interaction between parents, kids, and teachers. 

[Conan71]

Money is no substitute for responsibility.  I recall parents being very involved in the process at Barnard Elementary as well as Jenks and Cascia Hall.  Until you can figure out the magic elixir to get rid of apathy amongst students and their families, you could throw $10 bln more at education in Oklahoma and still not see a marked improvement in results.

Most of my classmates at Barnard have gone on to very successful careers in business, medicine, the law, investments, banking, etrepreneurship.  Some have become important business leaders, civic leaders, and even politicians.  I can say the same for my contemporaries at Jenks and Cascia.  I could also tell you the names of most of the most successful kid's parents simply because they were the baseball coaches, den mothers, classroom volunteers, or were regularly working on school events.

[DolfanBob]

I have a great idea. We can fix this with one word.
                       "LOTTERY"

[custosnox]

I was also impressed with the technology in my daughter's class room.  A big-screen touch-screen monitor has replaced the chalk-board giving the teacher the ability to write, and control multimedia presentations from the screen.  My daughter at one point went to the board and wrote her name on the screen with her finger.  The teacher could then slide her written name to a side of the screen and make room for the next student.  I had no idea there was this type of technology available in the first grade.

They have actually had these smart boards at Eugene Fields since they built the new building.  I haven't seen them an many other TPS schools though.  They are a great peice of technology to have in the class room

We do need more parental involvment in the schools.  The majority of the time in districts like TPS the parents only show up when the kid is in trouble, if they bother even then.  That involvment is very important.  Unless we can find a way to get parents to care, then we aren't going to get much out of them.  But the kids are what are important.  If we can't get the parents to be more involved, then the school needs to be in order to motivate these kids.  We can't just cut the kids adrift out of spite of their parents.

[RecycleMichael]

I agree with parental involvement making a difference. My wife is a home room mom and soccer coach and I coach the chess team. We also spend time every night helping/checking homework.

We can't vote on making parents involved in our schools. We can vote on getting proper funding and the vote is in four weeks. Oklahoma is 49th in per pupil funding. 49th.

This bill forces other state agencies to cut waste and gives our kids an equal playing field when competing for colleges and careers. Vote yes.

[RecycleMichael]

Arkansas spends 30% more per student than Oklahoma. Want to see the difference? Look at test scores.

[Conan71]

Arkansas spends 30% more per student than Oklahoma. Want to see the difference? Look at test scores.

Linky?

I wish more families were like yours, RM, you and Mrs. RM are raising some amazing kids.

[bokworker]

I agree with parental involvement making a difference. My wife is a home room mom and soccer coach and I coach the chess team. We also spend time every night helping/checking homework.

We can't vote on making parents involved in our schools. We can vote on getting proper funding and the vote is in four weeks. Oklahoma is 49th in per pupil funding. 49th.

This bill forces other state agencies to cut waste and gives our kids an equal playing field when competing for colleges and careers. Vote yes.

RM, I am actually only speaking to the last line in your quote. I am on the board of Family and Children's Services and we are having a presentation on this issue later this month. At our last board meeting however our executive director commented on the potentially delitorious effect passsage of this bill could have on our (F&CS) budget. I am sure there are areas of waste that could be culled but I would suspect that it would be handled by an across the board type of action to alleviate having to actually go through a process to identify waste vs. needed expenditures. In this event, F&CS fears a significant cut to their operating budget. Sitting on the Finance committee of the board I can tell you that F&CS is one organization that the citicens of Tulsa and Northeast Oklahoma get a considerable amount of bang for their buck. DHS funding is vital for these services to continue. While the goal of the bill is admirable, the methods used to accomplish its goal appear to leave much to be desired.

[RecycleMichael]

BOKworker: I appreciate the work of Family and Children's services. Thank you for your service on their board. I didn't know that you had very much state funding. I looked up some past financials and only saw info on two state grants that represented 5% of the operating budget. Is that right?

To Conan: Thank you for your kind words about my children. We do have two good kids that work hard to maintain good grades. I am proud that both of them have always had straight A' s.

I just have an over-inflated sense of responsibility to raising kids. Maybe it is just crazy liberal talk but I have led my life and work toward helping. the ones who matter most to me; the young, the old, and the disabled. One of my favorite quotes that has influenced my life was made by Hubert H. Humphrey who said, "that the moral test of government is how that government treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the elderly; and those who are in the shadows of life – the sick, the needy and the handicapped.”

There are other causes that my family and probably most of your families contribute to including ending homelessness, helping the mentally ill, and stopping domestic violence. I also see those as a responsibility for us.

Our state government needs to properly fund public schools for our children. Period. They have failed to do so and won't unless this bill passes.

I think the bill is well written and gives the legislature three years to figure out how to get to the average of our surrrounding states. Clearly, there are some groups that will need to make the case to political budget leaders that they can't afford to have their budget lowered. I think the legislature can do both and still find other areas to find savings.

[Conan71]

So basically this becomes a mandatory reapportionment (and re-prioritization) of funds More or less by force. In some ways I like that, but I can see pit falls. This isn't terribly unlike what I wish the Feds would do: you have x $ to spend and you may not borrow a cent more nor raise tax rates, pick your priorities and fund them according to necessity.