Trader Joe's

[heironymouspasparagus]

What would make it better, having the crosswalks further out?  I think slowing down traffic on Peoria would help solve the problem.  The medians between 33rd and 35th need to be extended all the way to 41st. 

Look at what Broken Arrow did with it's Main Street.  I thought it would be a total mess, but has worked out very well.  No parallel parking, which helps with getting in and out of cars on the street. 

The thing that I thought would hurt the most actually has been pretty good - reduced the street to 2 lanes, with traffic slowing at each intersection.  VERY pedestrian friendly - we go there once in a while just to walk up and down the street!

Peoria looks like it could almost have a 3 lane approach - two traffic and a middle turn lane with the BA parking approach.  Room for more actual parking spaces, less danger to drivers getting out into traffic, and could have some decorative planters ala 'Rose District'.  And for a good portion of that stretch of road, de-emphasis as a main thoroughfare is needed anyway - it is crazy to try to keep it as 'thru-traffic' with the buildup that is going on there.

[DTowner]

The real problem seems to be that Peoria carried over 20,000 cars per day between 41st & 31st before Riverside closed.  That is slightly more than Lewis. 

Squeezing down such a major arterial street is not going to be an easy task without a lot of unintended consequences to neighboring streets and could be detrimental to Brookside businesses.

[Conan71]

The real problem seems to be that Peoria carried over 20,000 cars per day between 41st & 31st before Riverside closed.  That is slightly more than Lewis. 

Squeezing down such a major arterial street is not going to be an easy task without a lot of unintended consequences to neighboring streets and could be detrimental to Brookside businesses.

Once Riverside is re-opened, I don't think it would be quite as big a deal as drivers who are merely transiting the Brookside district would have the option of Riverside, Utica, or Lewis to by-pass a slower pace on the 31st to 41st corridor.

Interesting to note, I was in my Bronco yesterday when I snapped that pic.  It sits plenty high enough, but it was still a chore to see over the car parallel parked in front of the TJ development.

I'm not trying to bag on TJ's nor the developer, but all of us walkability nerds have been of the belief that built up to the sidewalk means more pedestrian-friendly and I was dumb-founded when I realized the poor sight-line forced me to have to drive into the crosswalk in order to make a safe RH turn.

[Bamboo World]

If you've been to OKC they have redone Western Ave which is similar to Peoria through Brookside.  The traffic calming measures implemented there have really helped create a more pedestrian friendly area.

That looks like 41st and Western.  If so, then I agree, it's more pedestrian friendly than it was before the changes.

Improvements:

1. The crosswalk has been moved farther in, away from the corner radius.

2. The textured crosswalk pavement has been removed and replaced with asphalt, clearly painted white to indicate it's a crosswalk.

3. The angled parking on the west side of Western has been shifted to the curb, allowing a much wider sidewalk with tables, chairs, and umbrellas (plus better wheelchair access, I imagine).

4. A tree is shown in the median.  Some shade trees along the west curb would make it even better. 

[davideinstein]

Peoria from 31st to 41st needs to be one lane each way with a protected bike lane plus a turning lane. 25mph speed limit.

[DTowner]

Once Riverside is re-opened, I don't think it would be quite as big a deal as drivers who are merely transiting the Brookside district would have the option of Riverside, Utica, or Lewis to by-pass a slower pace on the 31st to 41st corridor.

Interesting to note, I was in my Bronco yesterday when I snapped that pic.  It sits plenty high enough, but it was still a chore to see over the car parallel parked in front of the TJ development.

I'm not trying to bag on TJ's nor the developer, but all of us walkability nerds have been of the belief that built up to the sidewalk means more pedestrian-friendly and I was dumb-founded when I realized the poor sight-line forced me to have to drive into the crosswalk in order to make a safe RH turn.

If I understood INCOG's numbers, those were traffic counts from before Riverside shutting down.  Undoubtedly, if you squeeze Peoria down to 2 lanes some traffic will migrate over to Riverside, Utica or Lewis.  However, there is a reason those folks weren't using those options before.

[heironymouspasparagus]

The real problem seems to be that Peoria carried over 20,000 cars per day between 41st & 31st before Riverside closed.  That is slightly more than Lewis.  

Squeezing down such a major arterial street is not going to be an easy task without a lot of unintended consequences to neighboring streets and could be detrimental to Brookside businesses.

We gotta decide what Peoria is to be.  To the north, the street is so horribly inadequate width and texture that it is just a gawd awful mess!!  And it is way to narrow for 4 lane to the south of 33rd.  We gotta make up our minds what we want it to be, cause what it is now is blech!   We want to have it all, and that just ain't gonna happen!  Walkability, bike friendly, casual, 'feel good to be there' just does not mess at all with 20,000 cars - all wanting to travel at arterial street speeds of 40 mph!!  I am mildly surprised it isn't a blood-bath there from pedestrians being run down!   Again, Broken Arrow Main Street.  For all their other quirks and oddities, they really got that one right!!  

If we want to keep the street width, then move all the buildings back....yeah, like that could happen...!

We should also start to look at what to do on a longer term basis when an area becomes the latest "fad" location - Cherry Street - 15th east of Peoria.  Has renewed and rejuvenated tremendously.  Still a hot mess for traffic.  Still trying to jam too many lanes of cars into too little space - yeah, for Cherry street, two lanes is too many!  Close it down to automobiles for a few blocks and force the issue on walking/public transit/bikes, etc.  We have done that from time to time with Main Street, so why not??  Put a nice wide awning over the street for those blocks to allow all weather use of the lane to encourage all the foot activity.  If car dealers can afford dozens of acres of awnings, they gotta be cheaper than maintenance on the road !!

Or close it down to a single lane, one way - pick a direction!   Use the rest for all other forms of movement.  It is about 2,500 ft from Peoria to Utica - if there was an awning 16 ft wide, that is LESS than ONE ACRE of cover!!  A high end cover should still be less than $20 a sq ft, which would put us in at 3/4 million dollars or so.

Who is doing the QuikTrip and Kum & Go awning covers now?  Start there.....


Edit - make Peoria one way, too, from 31st to 41st, with one lane only as starting point to getting it right.

[Bamboo World]

The real problem seems to be that Peoria carried over 20,000 cars per day between 41st & 31st before Riverside closed.  That is slightly more than Lewis. 

Squeezing down such a major arterial street is not going to be an easy task without a lot of unintended consequences to neighboring streets and could be detrimental to Brookside businesses.

Are those numbers from INCOG's Traffic Count Map?

If so, the map shows 17,000 vehicles per day on 15th Street at Troost.  Most of 15th between Peoria and Utica has been narrowed to two lanes.  If two lanes work for 17,000 vehicles per day, then two lanes with a center turn lane ought to work on Peoria with 21,400 vehicles per day.

Peoria between 33rd and 41st has been spoiled by yet another City "streetscaping" project with rough, dangerous, expensive crosswalks and pavement gewgaw.   

[Red Arrow]

Looks like we need a Brookside bypass.  Let's tear down dozens of houses and put in a 4-Lane bypass around the area with a 50 mph speed limit.   

[Red Arrow]

I'm not trying to bag on TJ's nor the developer, but all of us walkability nerds have been of the belief that built up to the sidewalk means more pedestrian-friendly and I was dumb-founded when I realized the poor sight-line forced me to have to drive into the crosswalk in order to make a safe RH turn.

Can't have everything.

[Red Arrow]

Peoria from 31st to 41st needs to be one lane each way with a protected bike lane plus a turning lane. 25mph speed limit.

Or, better yet, close it off to automobiles and put in a (real) trolley for the mile.  Make all day passes available for the trolley similar to the all day passes in Munich Germany when I was there in 1995.

[Red Arrow]

What would make it better, having the crosswalks further out?  I think slowing down traffic on Peoria would help solve the problem.  The medians between 33rd and 35th need to be extended all the way to 41st. 

If you've been to OKC they have redone Western Ave which is similar to Peoria through Brookside.  The traffic calming measures implemented there have really helped create a more pedestrian friendly area.

You can't fool me, you just took the pictures for the pedestrians.

[Red Arrow]

I'm not trying to bag on TJ's nor the developer, but all of us walkability nerds have been of the belief that built up to the sidewalk means more pedestrian-friendly and I was dumb-founded when I realized the poor sight-line forced me to have to drive into the crosswalk in order to make a safe RH turn.

It is more pedestrian friendly.  Park the Bronco and walk. 

[erfalf]

on heironymouspasparagus point regarding Cherry Street.

One way actually seems like a pretty good option. 14th street, one block to the north, is already one way. So make 15th one way moving Westbound and you're set. Seems like a good option to me.

Peoria on the other hand...

My closest comparison off the top of my head is Lower Greenville in Dallas. It still has it's issues, but they did make it two lanes only with parallel parking. It's still an arterial (used to be THE highway before 75 was constructed). There is heavy traffic counts, and it is annoying driving 20 mph when all you are really trying to do is avoid HW 75. That I recall there were hardly any lights or stop signs, yet traffic was always creeping along because of the constant street crossers who had right of way. They may have added some calming measures since I have been, but when I was driving it, there was nothing. No raised crosswalks, no extended curbs, no nothing, heck the crosswalks weren't even painted all that well most of the time. But it was still better than driving down Peoria (Brookside).

[Conan71]

It is more pedestrian friendly.  Park the Bronco and walk. 

The walk back to my office was a bit far and would have required walking across the I-44 river bridge.