Global Warming Freaks Really Getting Freakier

[Gaspar]

Sure we can nibble a few leaves, dig a few holes, and burn some stuff, but someday winter will come and we will die.

In the past 20,000 years this planet has been much warmer, and much colder.  Sea levels have been much higher and much lower.  Slow shifts and drastic shifts in climate have occurred without any human action or intervention.

Not to say that we shouldn't be good stewards of our environment, but it is arrogant to believe that changes in the climate are our doing.

Some day this planet will shrug us off, and there will be no evidence of our existence.  That is inevitable. 

Sorry for the doom and gloom, but we simply aren't as important as we think we are.

The important thing is to be resourceful, clean up after ourselves, and work towards new efficiencies, not because we are "saving the planet" but because it is healthier for us to do so economically and aesthetically. 

"Global Warming" is a cause used to motivate those who do not produce.  "Environmental Responsibility" motivates those who do.

[Conan71]

I guess I'm a global warming agnostic.  I see it's possible, but given a lot of the de-bunked hysteria and drama which has been used to promote it, I simply don't see the major crisis looming and I don't think we have near enough data to draw a firm conclusion either way.  Making it a political issue has not helped either.  It goes without saying we have far better global data collection and sharing the last ten years than the previous ten, and so on back to the turn of the last century. 

Gaspar, great post, great conclusion especially.  I agree less emissions and waste is not a bad thing by any yard stick.

The issue at hand is: thinking people don't respond well to hysteria and people who respond to hysterics don't respond well to logic.

[nathanm]

If it's not caused by humans, what do you think we can do about it?

There are actually some fairly impressive geoengineering plans I've seen. One interesting one involves using giant smokestacks to spew anti-greenhouse gases into the stratosphere. It seems wiser to cut our carbon emissions, but if we've got to embark on massive and risky projects because we can't be bothered to save some fossil fuels for later, so be it.

Conan, it's perfectly reasonable to question whether the warming is man made or not. I think the evidence is reasonably clear, but it may not be to everyone. What can't be reasonably debated is that the Earth is in fact warming. It having been over 30 years since the last time the global average temperature was below the 20th century average pretty strong evidence.

That the length of the warm stretch goes beyond the solar cycle is a pretty strong indication it's not because the sun is sending more energy our way, also.

[Conan71]

There are actually some fairly impressive geoengineering plans I've seen. One interesting one involves using giant smokestacks to spew anti-greenhouse gases into the stratosphere. It seems wiser to cut our carbon emissions, but if we've got to embark on massive and risky projects because we can't be bothered to save some fossil fuels for later, so be it.

Conan, it's perfectly reasonable to question whether the warming is man made or not. I think the evidence is reasonably clear, but it may not be to everyone. What can't be reasonably debated is that the Earth is in fact warming. It having been over 30 years since the last time the global average temperature was below the 20th century average pretty strong evidence.

That the length of the warm stretch goes beyond the solar cycle is a pretty strong indication it's not because the sun is sending more energy our way, also.

It can be debated as the method of data collection and interpretation can and has been called into question by some learned scientists.  As well, the need for NASA and NOAA to remain relevant in the world of budget funding means they've got a vested interest in keeping the issue out there.

[nathanm]

It can be debated as the method of data collection and interpretation can and has been called into question by some learned scientists.

Which learned scientists working in a related field would those be? Entomologists don't count any more than a m&a attorney counts when you need a criminal defense attorney.

Let's remember that there are many different data sets used to measure historical temperature and carbon dioxide levels. It's one thing to argue that ice cores are wrong or that satellite data is wrong. It's another thing to argue that surface measurements, satellite data, ice cores, and tree ring analysis are all wrong. They all show the same trend.

You should read some of the Ars Technica articles on the subject. They have some pretty thorough debunkings of the "debunking."

[Conan71]

You should read some of the Ars Technica articles on the subject. They have some pretty thorough debunkings of the "debunking."

It doesn't fit my paradigm, so why would I? 

There are climatologists and statisticians who have spoken up as to the inaccuracies.

[Red Arrow]

My scientists are better than your scientists.

[Gaspar]

I listen to the scientists with the fewest grants to protect. 

[nathanm]

There are climatologists and statisticians who have spoken up as to the inaccuracies.

But you can't find a climatologist who has?

[heironymouspasparagus]

I guess that means you gotta quit listening to all the Exxon and BP scientists.  And that means all the sources of info to Fox.

[Conan71]

But you can't find a climatologist who has?

It's baking data and manipulating facts right down to completely bogus asserstions:

"A survey of climatologists from more than 20 nations has revealed scientists are evenly split on whether humans are responsible for changes in global climate. The findings refute a widely reported study by a California "Gender and Science" professor who claimed that, based on her personal examination of 928 scientific papers on the issue, every single one reached the conclusion that global warming is real and primarily caused by humans.


Professor Claims Scientific Unanimity

In December 2004, Dr. Naomi Oreskes of the University of California at San Diego received widespread media attention for claiming her review of scientific literature showed scientists were in unanimous agreement that global warming is occurring and is being caused primarily by humans.

In an article titled "Undeniable Global Warming," Oreskes wrote in the December 26 Washington Post, "There is a scientific consensus on the fact that Earth's climate is heating up and human activities are part of the reason. We need to stop repeating nonsense about the uncertainty of global warming and start talking seriously about the right approach to address it."


Climatologists Dispute Oreskes

The May 1 London Telegraph, however, noted Oreskes' "unequivocal conclusions immediately raised suspicions among other academics, who knew of many papers that dissented from the pro-global warming line."

The newspaper reported that Dr. Benny Peiser, a senior lecturer in the science faculty at Liverpool John Moores University, "decided to conduct his own analysis of the same set of 1,000 documents [cited by Oreskes]--and concluded that only one-third backed the consensus view, while only 1 percent did so explicitly."'

http://www.heartland.org/policybot/results/17181/Survey_Shows_Climatologists_Are_Split_on_Global_Warming.html

"Leading Climatologist Disputes Global Warming Conclusions denverpost.com — Climatologist Bill Gray is perhaps the world's foremost hurricane expert. "They've been brainwashing us for 20 years," Gray says. And contrary to Al Gore's film, another respected climatologist contends that "there aren't just two sides here. There are a range of opinions on this issue. A lot of scientists out there... are not being heard."

http://digg.com/news/science/Leading_Climatologist_Disputes_Global_Warming_Conclusions

I'm quite sure you know how to use Google, but I figured I'd give you a head start, or you otherwise might not seek out articles disputing global warming er climate change.

[nathanm]

Meteorologists are not climatologists. Weather is not climate.

I asked for a glazed donut and you gave me a radial tire.