Downtown Post Office (Paige Belcher Bldg)

[Conan71]

(I've always loved the doors, too.)

+1

[PonderInc]

OK, I asked for that one...  Conan, you are a brat.  Thanks for the laugh. 

[TheTed]

Noticed a big for sale sign in front of the Page Belcher building along Denver.

[spartanokc]

Something tells me that there is probably the opportunity to fill another adjacent site with infill rather than tearing down a building for the sake of something else. What would the net gain be? Would the feds really rebuild a more modern version of the same facility on a different site, which of course, would be the perfect site (as opposed to this block) for a sterile federal building?

This is you guys' downtown in a potential infill map someone on OKC Talk made:


I'd say the priority has to be keeping as much density as possible.

[swake]

Something tells me that there is probably the opportunity to fill another adjacent site with infill rather than tearing down a building for the sake of something else. What would the net gain be? Would the feds really rebuild a more modern version of the same facility on a different site, which of course, would be the perfect site (as opposed to this block) for a sterile federal building?

This is you guys' downtown in a potential infill map someone on OKC Talk made:


I'd say the priority has to be keeping as much density as possible.

That map has us tearing down every parking garage, parking lot and one story building in the IDL. It's even taking out half the convention center.

The building is a useless ugly monolithic mostly empty hulk and blocks the path between the BOK Center and the Convention Center. Bring it down. Tulsa has a very nice classic Federal building, if the feds need more space than that they can build a new building or lease space in other downtown buildings near the Federal Building.

Here's the federal building to save:


And the one that needs to go:

[BKDotCom]

Could the facade be replaced?
Perhaps instead of the ugly cement, something a bit more warm, inviting, and modern... Something like the new convention-center ballroom?

Perhaps go a bit further and take a good chunk out of the middle creating an atrium/lobby/open air corridor to link the BOK center and the library/plaza/new hotel area ..   after all that area is getting a major facelift with the removal of most of that parking structure / plaza..

I've never seen the inside (other than the post office) so can't say if it's fair to judge this book by its cover.


Edit:  while I'm at it... this is barely related, but that stupid "2nd Street" exit ramp / bridge from the IDL needs to go.    It should be a simple exit to Charles Page Blvd (aka 3rd St).   As it is, the ramp takes you to a t-bone intersection at Frisco.  Turning left is pretty worthless (and the only option right now as Frisco is now blocked between 2nd and 3rd for "winterfest")... Left takes you to 1st street, which is one-way in the direction you're not interested in.    If the exit was to 3rd street it would give much better access to the BOK / convention center parking (simple right turn into parking structure)... and to the rest of downtown.

[SXSW]

That map would look a lot different if you didn't include parking garages, but it does show what we all know: there is too much surface parking downtown.  The best scenario for Page Belcher is for the government to build a new building on the BOK surface lot at 1st/2nd & Denver/Cheyenne, one block from the existing federal courthouse.  Then demo Page Belcher creating a park/plaza in its place surrounded by the library and new Aloft hotel to the south, downtown bus depot to the east, convention center to the west, and BOK Center to the north.  The One Place mixed-use development with retail/restaurant space facing Denver with apartments above, hotel and Cimarex tower would be caddy-corner to the park. 

When the times comes to expand the convention center again someday the parking garage could be relocated to the west across Houston and the current garage torn down to make way for more space with giant curtain wall overlooking the park and skyline.  Way down the road...

[Renaissance]

Something tells me that there is probably the opportunity to fill another adjacent site with infill rather than tearing down a building for the sake of something else. What would the net gain be? Would the feds really rebuild a more modern version of the same facility on a different site, which of course, would be the perfect site (as opposed to this block) for a sterile federal building?

New security, technology, and LEED-Gold requirements for federal buildings pretty much mean that they're slowly replacing all obsolete, non-historic facilities.  Which is what Page Belcher is.  Just a matter of time... but could be a very long time.

This is you guys' downtown in a potential infill map someone on OKC Talk made:

I'd say the priority has to be keeping as much density as possible.

That map is very inaccurate and also misleading (is a single row of parking at the county jail really a potential infill site?).  Not that Tulsa is guilt-free.  If I'm not mistaken, some poster on this forum created one that shows surface parking more clearly (probably needs some updates). 

[TheTed]

The map is missing our newest surface lots: the giant one across from the BOK Center that used to be the BOK autobank.

As for the Belcher building, their giant gated parking lot behind blocks a big portion of the path between the civic center and the BOK Center. I'm not even sure if it's used during the daytime, but I do know that evenings and weekends when the BOK Center is busy, that lot is probably something like 98% empty.

The only thing worse than surface parking is gated surface parking. At least ungated surface parking allows pedestrians to take more direct routes.

[spartanokc]

That map has us tearing down every parking garage, parking lot and one story building in the IDL. It's even taking out half the convention center.

The building is a useless ugly monolithic mostly empty hulk and blocks the path between the BOK Center and the Convention Center. Bring it down. Tulsa has a very nice classic Federal building, if the feds need more space than that they can build a new building or lease space in other downtown buildings near the Federal Building.

Here's the federal building to save:


And the one that needs to go:

You are truly the pro of the red herring fallacy. Only one of those buildings is the Page Belcher Bldg...

[custosnox]

You are truly the pro of the red herring fallacy. Only one of those buildings is the Page Belcher Bldg...

ummm... I believe that is what he said.  The first one was the nice looking building while the second was the ugly one.

[DowntownDan]

The pretty federal building is where the bankruptcy courts are.  The ugly one is where the regular federal court is. 

[DowntownDan]

That map would look a lot different if you didn't include parking garages, but it does show what we all know: there is too much surface parking downtown.  The best scenario for Page Belcher is for the government to build a new building on the BOK surface lot at 1st/2nd & Denver/Cheyenne, one block from the existing federal courthouse.  Then demo Page Belcher creating a park/plaza in its place surrounded by the library and new Aloft hotel to the south, downtown bus depot to the east, convention center to the west, and BOK Center to the north.  The One Place mixed-use development with retail/restaurant space facing Denver with apartments above, hotel and Cimarex tower would be caddy-corner to the park. 

When the times comes to expand the convention center again someday the parking garage could be relocated to the west across Houston and the current garage torn down to make way for more space with giant curtain wall overlooking the park and skyline.  Way down the road...

I like this idea.  It would also be really nice so that the BOK Center can use the park for Winterfest and the ice rink.  It feels awkward and cramped right now the way they have it set up.  It would also be a perfect connector of the BOK Center with the convension center.   Again,that part of town feels awkward and cramped mostly because of the ugly federal building.

[SXSW]

I like this idea.  It would also be really nice so that the BOK Center can use the park for Winterfest and the ice rink.  It feels awkward and cramped right now the way they have it set up.  It would also be a perfect connector of the BOK Center with the convension center.   Again,that part of town feels awkward and cramped mostly because of the ugly federal building.

I was thinking the same thing about Winterfest.  That would be a cool setting for the ice rink and could be a bigger location for other downtown events like Mayfest. 

[DowntownDan]

Looks like we're stuck with it for at least another 15-20 years at which time the BOK center might be nearing the end of its life (seems arenas are considered obsolete after 30 years these days.)

City needs Inhofe's help to acquire Belcher building


The Tulsa skyline is seen with the Page Belcher Federal Building (lower center) across from the and the BOK Center (left). TOM GILBERT / Tulsa World
By P.J. LASSEK World Staff Writer
Published: 8/22/2011  2:22 AM
Last Modified: 8/22/2011  7:49 AM

City officials are working on a long-term plan to acquire the downtown Page Belcher Federal Building at no cost to the taxpayers.

The goal is to redevelop the site to enhance the activities at the Tulsa Convention Center and the BOK Center, said Economic Development Director Mike Bunney.

But to get there, he said, will require roughly 18 years and the assistance of U.S. Sen. Jim Inhofe.

"It would be nice to have it done next year," Mayor Dewey Bartlett said. "Instead, it's going to take a while and it will be the next generation who will reap the rewards."

The federal building, built in the late 1960s, houses the U.S. Court for the Northern District of Oklahoma, the U.S. Marshals Service and a satellite post office.

The building and parking area encompass a square block bounded by Third and Fourth streets between Denver and Frisco avenues. The site also is flanked by the convention center and the BOK Center.

The building is owned by the U.S. Postal Service and was built during a time in which it was common practice to co-locate federal courts and post offices downtown, Bunney said.

He said the postal service would sell the building to the city for $10 million, "but the city doesn't have that kind of money available."

Besides the cost, the main hurdle in acquiring the building is the federal courthouse, he said. Local officials all agree that the courthouse needs to stay downtown.

Bunney said the goal is to relocate the courthouse and a satellite post office to separate downtown sites.

However, because Tulsa is "a peaceful" place, the federal courthouse is not high up on the federal government's list for a new facility which meets the required architectural guidelines established following the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, Bunney said.

According to the guidelines, "you can't have the public easily wandering into the courthouse anymore because they could have a bomb in their britches," he said.

This is where Inhofe's assistance is needed, Bunney said. Inhofe is a ranking member of the U.S. Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works, which approves construction of new courthouses.

The hope is for Inhofe to move Tulsa's courthouse up on the list for a new one.

But in the interim, the building would be renovated to meet those required architectural guidelines.

A partnership would be developed between the Tulsa Industrial Authority and the Keating Group, a Philadelphia firm that does courtroom construction for the federal government.

Preliminary renovation plans indicate that to meet the guidelines, the entire building would be converted into the courthouse and the satellite post office would be relocated.

"We have a letter of intent from Keating that says if the authority will work with them, they'll acquire the building from the post office and form a Limited Liability Co. with TIA to own the building," Bunney said.

The building would be leased back to the government for a term long enough for the Keating firm to recoup the investment costs and a profit. The process is estimated to be between 15 and 18 years.

Bunney said Inhofe's help also is needed for the long-term lease. The lease would be negotiated with the U.S. General Services Administration.

If a lease is granted, at the end of the 15 to 18 years, Bunney said, the Keating Group would step away from the LLC and let the authority have the building.

The city is the sole beneficiary of the authority.

Authority Director Clay Bird said that the only exposure to the authority is roughly $150,000 for pre-development costs, which would be recouped through lease payments.

Bird said that this deal allows the building to be improved during an interim period.

Bird said that if officials can get Inhofe to agree to the plan, then it is likely an agreement between Keating and the authority can be signed in a few months.

"Right now, this is the only method to acquire the building, while preserving a downtown post office and federal courthouse that doesn't cost us $10 million in cash that we don't have," Bunney said.

Read more from this Tulsa World article at http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=334&articleid=20110822_11_A1_ULNShu462743