Now That SQ 744 Has Tanked, What To Do About Common Education

[Red Arrow]

The money must go to KS, MO, AR, TX, NM, and CO.   

[Conan71]

Conan, where does the money go that's spent at a casino?

A portion goes to payroll which does eventually find it's way back into the local economy.  A portion goes to vendors, which to my knowledge do not collect sales tax from casinos, and a portion goes out of state to gaming companies.

I'm glad you brought this up as it did make me dig a little deeper to see if there's some sort of breakdown on gaming revenues, and I was rather surprised at what I found.  I'm always willing to admit (begrudgingly) when I'm wrong er mistaken.

On the state level, based on 4.5% sales tax on $2.9 bln, that's roughly $130mm.  The state recieved $118mm in revenue from the gaming pacts, so that's a net loss of $12mm to the state, which isn't as bad as I thought.  However, local communities lose property tax and their share of the sales tax, except for what finds it's way back into the community via consumption by casino employees.

I can see the good in Indian gaming as well.  It can also be argued that tribes have contributed to tourism.  Tribal members have by-and-large been plagued by poverty for years.  Gaming has taken pressure off federally-funded programs as tribes have become more self-sufficient in terms of housing, healthcare, and the overall welfare of their members.  But saying there's no drain on the sales tax base nor some societal problems as a result of Indian gaming would be an absolute falsehood. 


Oklahoma revenues from Indian gaming have skyrocketed, bringing a record $118.2 million to state coffers.
BY RANDY ELLIS Oklahoman     40 Published: August 15, 2010

State revenues from Indian gaming have soared in recent years, largely due to the success of casinos operated by the Chickasaw, Choctaw and Cherokee nations.

Oklahoma Indian tribes paid the state a record $118.2 million in gaming fees during fiscal year 2010, which ended June 30.

Following is a breakdown of the fees paid by 30 tribes:

• Absentee Shawnee: $278,389

• Apache: $336,199

• Cherokee Nation: $12,208,042

• Cheyenne-Arapaho: $2,850,210

• Chickasaw Nation: $33,330,424

• Choctaw Nation: $22,753,832

• Citizen Potawatomi: $5,499,238

• Comanche Nation: $2,277,850

• Delaware Nation: $374,534

• Eastern Shawnee Tribe: $1,453,270

• Fort Sill Apache: $1,461,604

• Iowa: $1,141,585

• Kaw Nation: $394,152

• Kickapoo: $895,422

• Kiowa Tribe: $2,314,546

• Miami Tribe: $343,742

• Muscogee (Creek): $8,635,061

• Osage: $4,858,438

• Otoe-Missouria: $5,051,242

• Ottawa: $196,563

• Pawnee: $267,580

• Peoria: $470,940

• Quapaw Tribe: $5,706,714

• Sac and Fox: $1,050,365

• Seminole: $250,537

• Seneca Cayuga: $601,761

• Thlopthlocco Tribal Town: $12,116

• Tonkawa: $2,451,375

• Wichita & Affiliated: $309,075

• Wyandotte: $436,897
Combined, the three tribes are responsible for 58 percent of the record $118.2 million in gaming fees paid to the state last fiscal year by 30 Indian tribes, according to records obtained from the Office of State Finance.

The Chickasaw Nation paid the state $33.3 million, the Choctaw Nation paid $22.7 million and the Cherokee Nation paid $12.2 million.

The other 27 tribes, combined, paid the state about $50 million.

Together, the 30 tribes are responsible for boosting state revenues from Indian gaming 5,000 percent in six years as tribes have expanded their casino operations and shifted to more Las Vegas-style games.

Indian gaming has become a huge industry in Oklahoma, with tribes generating about $2.9 billion in 2008, according to the 2009-2010 edition of Casino City's Indian Gaming Industry Report, authored by California economist Alan Meister.

Read more: http://newsok.com/oklahoma-indian-gaming-revenues-soar/article/3485404#ixzz167L6TkGE

[swake]

A portion goes to payroll which does eventually find it's way back into the local economy.  A portion goes to vendors, which to my knowledge do not collect sales tax from casinos, and a portion goes out of state to gaming companies.

I'm glad you brought this up as it did make me dig a little deeper to see if there's some sort of breakdown on gaming revenues, and I was rather surprised at what I found.  I'm always willing to admit (begrudgingly) when I'm wrong er mistaken.

On the state level, based on 4.5% sales tax on $2.9 bln, that's roughly $130mm.  The state recieved $118mm in revenue from the gaming pacts, so that's a net loss of $12mm to the state, which isn't as bad as I thought.  However, local communities lose property tax and their share of the sales tax, except for what finds it's way back into the community via consumption by casino employees.

I can see the good in Indian gaming as well.  It can also be argued that tribes have contributed to tourism.  Tribal members have by-and-large been plagued by poverty for years.  Gaming has taken pressure off federally-funded programs as tribes have become more self-sufficient in terms of housing, healthcare, and the overall welfare of their members.  But saying there's no drain on the sales tax base nor some societal problems as a result of Indian gaming would be an absolute falsehood.  


Oklahoma revenues from Indian gaming have skyrocketed, bringing a record $118.2 million to state coffers.
BY RANDY ELLIS Oklahoman     40 Published: August 15, 2010

State revenues from Indian gaming have soared in recent years, largely due to the success of casinos operated by the Chickasaw, Choctaw and Cherokee nations.

Oklahoma Indian tribes paid the state a record $118.2 million in gaming fees during fiscal year 2010, which ended June 30.

Following is a breakdown of the fees paid by 30 tribes:

• Absentee Shawnee: $278,389

• Apache: $336,199

• Cherokee Nation: $12,208,042

• Cheyenne-Arapaho: $2,850,210

• Chickasaw Nation: $33,330,424

• Choctaw Nation: $22,753,832

• Citizen Potawatomi: $5,499,238

• Comanche Nation: $2,277,850

• Delaware Nation: $374,534

• Eastern Shawnee Tribe: $1,453,270

• Fort Sill Apache: $1,461,604

• Iowa: $1,141,585

• Kaw Nation: $394,152

• Kickapoo: $895,422

• Kiowa Tribe: $2,314,546

• Miami Tribe: $343,742

• Muscogee (Creek): $8,635,061

• Osage: $4,858,438

• Otoe-Missouria: $5,051,242

• Ottawa: $196,563

• Pawnee: $267,580

• Peoria: $470,940

• Quapaw Tribe: $5,706,714

• Sac and Fox: $1,050,365

• Seminole: $250,537

• Seneca Cayuga: $601,761

• Thlopthlocco Tribal Town: $12,116

• Tonkawa: $2,451,375

• Wichita & Affiliated: $309,075

• Wyandotte: $436,897
Combined, the three tribes are responsible for 58 percent of the record $118.2 million in gaming fees paid to the state last fiscal year by 30 Indian tribes, according to records obtained from the Office of State Finance.

The Chickasaw Nation paid the state $33.3 million, the Choctaw Nation paid $22.7 million and the Cherokee Nation paid $12.2 million.

The other 27 tribes, combined, paid the state about $50 million.

Together, the 30 tribes are responsible for boosting state revenues from Indian gaming 5,000 percent in six years as tribes have expanded their casino operations and shifted to more Las Vegas-style games.

Indian gaming has become a huge industry in Oklahoma, with tribes generating about $2.9 billion in 2008, according to the 2009-2010 edition of Casino City's Indian Gaming Industry Report, authored by California economist Alan Meister.

Read more: http://newsok.com/oklahoma-indian-gaming-revenues-soar/article/3485404#ixzz167L6TkGE

About 25% of casino revenue goes to employee cost and directly back into the economy. Most of the vendor money is spent with local companies and goes back into the economy. All of the profit goes to the tribes and is spend locally back into the economy. $200 blown at a casino is far better for the local economy than $200 spent at Best Buy or other big box retailers with miniscule labor costs and nearly totally non local vendors/suppliers and where almost all profits go out of state. And those stores have exactly zero tourism draw from out of state so all dollars spent at those stores is from locals.

Even with the loss of some sales tax dollars casinos are far better for the local economy than any Wal-Mart Supercenter. They are certainly very harmful to certain individuals but I would argue that people with a tendency to blow too much money at a casino in the absence of a casino would find something to blow all their money on. A casino is an efficient vehicle to further these peoples problems, not the reason for their problems.

[TulsaMoon]

Powerball Lotto money goes where? If we take the higher education out of that and send it to the local middle and high schools would that be a start?

[Conan71]

Powerball Lotto money goes where? If we take the higher education out of that and send it to the local middle and high schools would that be a start?

Welcome aboard!

My original understanding from the marketing spree for getting the lottery was how it would help the kids.  Was everyone else under the impression too it was going to elementary and secondary education?

[TulsaMoon]

Found this link. Seems that 45% K - 12 and 45% to higher education.

http://www.oklahomalottery.com/where-does-the-money-go.html

[heironymouspasparagus]

The Oklahoma Money Grab machine - the state legislature - takes each new idea, lottery for example, and determines how much will be coming in - say $100 million.  Then they add that to the education pile of money, while at EXACTLY the same time diverting $100 million that WAS there back to the general fund.

Okies are sold the bill of goods with the explicit implication that the $100 million will be ADDED to what is already being spent.  It is not.  It replaces other monies that are now free to go back to the general fund.

[RecycleMichael]

Welcome TulsaMoon.

Yes. I like your idea of taking the 45cents of every losing powerball ticket away from Higher Ed and giving it to Common Ed (k-12).

I agree with conan...that is the impression we all have. It is money for the kids (whom I define as under 18 years of age.

The Higher Ed board of regents is like having the mafia as a partner. They get half of whatever you get, no matter how much or how little it is.

[TulsaMoon]

 Tuition grants, loans and scholarships to citizens of this state to enable such citizens to attend colleges and universities located within this state, construction of educational facilities, capital outlay programs and technology for all levels of education, endowed chairs for professors at institutions and programs & personnel of the Oklahoma School for the Deaf and the Oklahoma School for the Blind.

Am I to understand that those items would come out of the general fund regardless of a lotto "donation"?

Just seems to me that we should not allow higher education a 45% piece of the pie. Yes I understand that certain class/race/whathaveyou stand a better chance of obtaining the funds to attend due to this, but it should dare I say must start with the K-12. I would like to see 80% K-12, 10% higher education, 10% Blind/Deaf schools.

Which brings us right back around to throwing money at it to fix the problem.

[Conan71]

Tuition grants, loans and scholarships to citizens of this state to enable such citizens to attend colleges and universities located within this state, construction of educational facilities, capital outlay programs and technology for all levels of education, endowed chairs for professors at institutions and programs & personnel of the Oklahoma School for the Deaf and the Oklahoma School for the Blind.

Am I to understand that those items would come out of the general fund regardless of a lotto "donation"?

Just seems to me that we should not allow higher education a 45% piece of the pie. Yes I understand that certain class/race/whathaveyou stand a better chance of obtaining the funds to attend due to this, but it should dare I say must start with the K-12. I would like to see 80% K-12, 10% higher education, 10% Blind/Deaf schools.

Which brings us right back around to throwing money at it to fix the problem.

All our educational institutions need to learn to spend their money a lot smarter and we need to get used to consolidation.  Until SQ 744 came around, I had no clue we had so many higher ed facilities (or prisons) scattered around the state.  Even amongst states with vast rural areas, we still have a fairly unusual number of schools per capita.

[RecycleMichael]

Until SQ 744 came around, I had no clue we had so many higher ed facilities (or prisons) scattered around the state. 

Those were the points of my three weeks of rambling on the state question. Normally, I don't attack government employees or programs but I can't ignore the terrible job the state has in funding priorities.

The legislature loves higher ed spending because when they retire, many of them get jobs there.

[Conan71]

The legislature loves higher ed spending because when they retire, many of them get jobs there.

Boren **cough** **cough** Hargis **cough****cough**

[custosnox]

Something of interest, I just got a call to perform in a survey on 744.  Of course I was of the group that they already had a quota on so don't get to participate, but it seems they are trying to figure out why it failed, and looking to make another run at it.

[Nik]

Proof that higher per pupil spending wouldn't guarantee an improvement in the quality of education:

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/two-thirds-wisconsin-public-school-8th-g

"Two-Thirds of Wisconsin Public-School 8th Graders Can't Read Proficiently—Despite Highest Per Pupil Spending in Midwest"

[Townsend]

"Two-Thirds of Wisconsin Public-School 8th Graders Can't Read Proficiently—Despite Highest Per Pupil Spending in Midwest"

Two-thirds of Oklahoma public school 8th graders answered with "What's 'read proficiently'?"