Now That SQ 744 Has Tanked, What To Do About Common Education

[Red Arrow]

Proof that higher per pupil spending wouldn't guarantee an improvement in the quality of education:

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/two-thirds-wisconsin-public-school-8th-g

"Two-Thirds of Wisconsin Public-School 8th Graders Can't Read Proficiently—Despite Highest Per Pupil Spending in Midwest"

It's obvious that they didn't spend enough.  Money fixes everything.

[RecycleMichael]

Nice selective use of one piece of information.

Did you happen to go to the actual Department of Education website? No. You just posted a story from a right wing blogger site.

http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/states/

Why look.  Wisconsin is ahead of the national average in every category, including reading proficiency. 

[Gaspar]

Nice selective use of one piece of information.

Did you happen to go to the actual Department of Education website? No. You just posted a story from a right wing blogger site.

http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/states/

Why look.  Wisconsin is ahead of the national average in every category, including reading proficiency. 

I'm impressed with Milwaukee .  They've had the longest running education voucher system in the country.  The public schools score right up there with the private schools and they compete for students.  Over 15,000 families choose vouchers to attend private schools.  They are a model education system for the country!

[guido911]

I've leaned quite much about public school teachers, their unions, and now those that support both. You can count me out from supporting any effort every one of those persons/groups get behind to improve education. They are vile and disgusting.

[Conan71]

Nice selective use of one piece of information.

Did you happen to go to the actual Department of Education website? No. You just posted a story from a right wing blogger site.

http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/states/

Why look.  Wisconsin is ahead of the national average in every category, including reading proficiency. 

You didn't seem too interested in the metrics I presented from that site when we were talking about whether or not Oklahoma is spending enough on education.

[Breadburner]

[shadows]

Since Q744 has failed that leaves the only source for the children to be brought up to the world standard of learning and will require limiting sports grossly.  Once we have reached this goal we will be able to recognize why it was Germany who produced the V2 rockets, the buzz bombs and the jet airplanes.  They lacked only the fuel to operate them.  Then they were unable to remember the score in the last football game   

[Hoss]

Since Q744 has failed that leaves the only source for the children to be brought up to the world standard of learning and will require limiting sports grossly.  Once we have reached this goal we will be able to recognize why it was Germany who produced the V2 rockets, the buzz bombs and the jet airplanes.  They lacked only the fuel to operate them.  Then they were unable to remember the score in the last football game   

Look.  It's TNF's own Charlie Sheen!

[guido911]

Is that real or photoshopped?

[nathanm]

Is that real or photoshopped?

It appears that Hooked on Phonics worked for her.

[cannon_fodder]

Generally, when something is stuck in the foreground and it seems to good to be true,  photoshop is to blame.

Per this lengthy and ongoing debate...

Oklahoma has tried skimping on education for a very long time.  It has bought us high crime (which costs $), low wages (which lack money), a myriad of health problems (obesity and smoking are inverse to education and wage), and children consistently among the poorest educated in the industrialized world.  In general, Oklahoma has uneducated people.

We have more people who didn't go to high school than people who have a graduate degree.

We have more people who dropped out of high school than those who graduated from college.

To pretend those statistics do not support or crowded prisons or low wages is unrealistic.

Also, there is a strong correlation between smart spending and results.  Throwing money at the problem doesn't fix it, but what we are doing now isn't working.  We spend significantly less on education than Arkansas or New Mexico.

I'm open to plans.  So far the best realistic idea I've had a chance to vote for is to throw money at the problem.  And that's better than the status quo.

- - - - -

Per vouchers:  I'd have no problem with vouchers under a couple criteria. 1) the program strips less money from public schools than the cost per pupil.  That is to say, if the cost per pupil is $7000 the voucher is only for $5k, thereby enabling public education while making it easier for people to choose private education if they want.  And 2), strict curriculum control of voucher schools.   In Iowa private schools are often private schools that also have religious classes.  In Oklahoma I've seen way too many religious institutions that also teach other stuff sometimes.  If a school has a book called "American History for Christians" or "Science for Christ's Followers" it has no business getting public money (I've actually seen American History for Christians, which has epic lies about the good Christian founders of our nation... like Jefferson and Franklin).

Private schools CAN have quality education, but it is no guarantee of such. 

Frankly, as long as parents are lazy and uneducated breaking the cycle is damn hard.  Maybe 1/2 of learning can take place in a school.

/ramble

[guido911]

I wonder if Holland Hall would qualify as an acceptable school for vouchers under CF's criteria. This school does have a religious affiliation and I have seen the pre-K classes saying prayers before they eat.  I wouldn't call it a "religious" school by any means though.

[nathanm]

Up to a point, throwing money at the problem does help. The problem is that here in Oklahoma, when we throw money at the problem, the school boards often spend it unwisely, on things like gigantor football stadiums (believe me, I love me some football, and regularly defend college ball from haters) and incredibly expensive (and unproven) technology.

Regarding vouchers, the reason I'm generally against them is that a large part of what keeps education costs affordable is volume. If you dropped TPS' enrollment by a third, its cost per pupil would skyrocket because they (and every other school district) has high fixed costs.

Also, I've seen first hand that throwing money at the problem makes a big difference. Fayetteville Public Schools is one of the best districts in the State of Arkansas precisely because the residents of the district are willing to throw money at it. In smaller neighboring districts, they struggle because they don't have nearly 50 mills of property tax supporting the district, instead choosing the bare minimum required by state law.

I just think it's funny that people are willing to spend godawful amounts of money on frivolous things like foreign wars or throwing illegal aliens out, but are unwilling to invest in our future world dominance. If we continue to turn out a large proportion of dumbasses, we'll soon have even bigger dumbasses running the country than we do now. You think we can win an economic battle with China and the EU if our populace is uneducated?

And saying a prayer before meals sounds pretty strongly like religion to me.

[guido911]

Nate:
So HH, one of the finest college preparatory schools in the state, would not qualify for receiving voucher money because their student's pray? You would deprive an underprivileged child a chance at real academic success because of that?

[Red Arrow]

Nate:
So HH, one of the finest college preparatory schools in the state, would not qualify for receiving voucher money because their student's pray? You would deprive an underprivileged child a chance at real academic success because of that?

Would you be so quick to defend vouchers for an otherwise equal school but different religion?  Let's pick the favorite, Islamic.