Tax cuts should end. (Did that get your attention?)

[we vs us]

This is where I feel we get of the rails so to speak on this issue. the fact is it is not JUST tax cuts or spending cuts. I am resigned to the fact that as a provider of funds to the federal government that my taxes are going up. But am I being unreasonable to expect some show of faith on being a bit more realistic on the spending side as well? Targeted tax cuts can and should be used (and they have by this administration) but anyone that thinks there are not ways to cut spending as well is just being obstinant in their outlook.

Am eminently reasonable position.  My argument has always been with the Tax Cuts Only crowd, which through fetishization and demagoguery has turned that into our only policy lever through which to tweak the economy.

Anyhoo:  yeah, cut spending . . . but make sure that everything's on the table.  If the left's sacred cows are on the carving table then so should the right's be.  Defense and tax cuts, medicare and social security.  

[Gaspar]

What spending would you like to cut? How are you reasonably going to cut enough spending to have money left over for tax cuts? (Hint: You aren't)

I would do exactly what President Obama's Blue Ribbon panel suggested.  It was mind-blowing it made so much sense.

3 Cheers for the Blue Ribbon Panel!

Oh, wait. . .they've now been ostracized for not towing the party line of more gubment, more spending, and higher taxes.

WWHD?

[bokworker]

I believe we are now in a position that there are no sacred cows. I find myself agreeing with virtually all of the recent proposals by the Deficit Reduction Panel. Defense, SS, Medicaire, the tax code (yes, even the home mortgage deduction)... everything is on the table. Make it hurt everyone and then everyone feels they they have skin in the game. We all have some responsibility in some way for the predicament in which we find ourselves. It will take all of us to get out of it.

[Gaspar]

I believe we are now in a position that there are no sacred cows. I find myself agreeing with virtually all of the recent proposals by the Deficit Reduction Panel. Defense, SS, Medicaire, the tax code (yes, even the home mortgage deduction)... everything is on the table. Make it hurt everyone and then everyone feels they they have skin in the game. We all have some responsibility in some way for the predicament in which we find ourselves. It will take all of us to get out of it.

+10

[Conan71]

I believe we are now in a position that there are no sacred cows. I find myself agreeing with virtually all of the recent proposals by the Deficit Reduction Panel. Defense, SS, Medicaire, the tax code (yes, even the home mortgage deduction)... everything is on the table. Make it hurt everyone and then everyone feels they they have skin in the game. We all have some responsibility in some way for the predicament in which we find ourselves. It will take all of us to get out of it.

That's a great post and I agree.  I think we all have a tendency to point in another direction at the government spending and benefits enjoyed by others while not looking closely at areas we depend on government where we should be willing to accept cuts as well.

[nathanm]

I would do exactly what President Obama's Blue Ribbon panel suggested.  It was mind-blowing it made so much sense.

3 Cheers for the Blue Ribbon Panel!

Oh, wait. . .they've now been ostracized for not towing the party line of more gubment, more spending, and higher taxes.

WWHD?

The panel hasn't released its report. A couple of the people on the panel leaked their draft report in an attempt to put pressure on the other members.

In any event, I wasn't saying that spending shouldn't be cut (at some point; waiting for a more robust recovery would be ideal).

Gaspar stated that what we need are spending cuts and tax cuts. I asked him what spending he would like to cut. The reason I asked that question was to get him to think about it and realize that there's not enough fat to resolve the deficit through spending cuts alone. It's simply not possible at our present economic output.

I will give Gaspar one thing..unlike many of his fellow travelers, he didn't suddenly adopt this anti-deficit stance. It was there during Bush and remains during Obama's administration. This is in direct contrast to Congressional Republicans, who are adopting the rhetoric yet refuse to identify a specific plan to eliminate the deficit. I have zero respect for the fake deficit hawks who have suddenly come out of the woodwork now that it's a Republican talking point.

[Gaspar]

The panel hasn't released its report. A couple of the people on the panel leaked their draft report in an attempt to put pressure on the other members.

In any event, I wasn't saying that spending shouldn't be cut (at some point; waiting for a more robust recovery would be ideal).

Gaspar stated that what we need are spending cuts and tax cuts. I asked him what spending he would like to cut. The reason I asked that question was to get him to think about it and realize that there's not enough fat to resolve the deficit through spending cuts alone. It's simply not possible at our present economic output.

I will give Gaspar one thing..unlike many of his fellow travelers, he didn't suddenly adopt this anti-deficit stance. It was there during Bush and remains during Obama's administration. This is in direct contrast to Congressional Republicans, who are adopting the rhetoric yet refuse to identify a specific plan to eliminate the deficit. I have zero respect for the fake deficit hawks who have suddenly come out of the woodwork now that it's a Republican talking point.

Specifics?
Ok. . .
Cut federal employees by 20% (since it has grown by about that in this admin).
Cut federal employee salaries by at least 10%.
Increase SS age for those under 40 to age 70 and give people the freedom to make their own retirement choices if they so choose.
Adopt a flat tax rate and eliminate ALL deductions.
Eliminate breakfast and dinner in many public schools. 
Enforce strict PAYGO policies in congress.
Eliminate all earmarks.  They make little impact but represent a symptom of a larger cancer.  Politicians that rely on earmarks for re-election are not representing the will of the people!
Eliminate dozens of redundant government offices.
Eliminate funding for public radio and television. 
Eliminate subsidies for corn and other crops that are sold at below market or simply let rot in the fields.
Eliminate the Overseas Private Investment Corporation.
Institute a school voucher program that forces public educators to compete for students.
Eliminate foreign aid to countries that are trying to kill us.
Take all national defense orders from private contractors and cut them in half.
Eliminate government documents printed in 27 foreign languages.  If you want to browse IRS publication 15A in Thai, hire a translator. We spend 4.5 billion each year providing translation of our government documents.

How's dat?

[nathanm]

How much will all that save? (some of your ideas for cuts are pretty hare-brained, but let's not quibble over that)

[Gaspar]

How much will all that save? (some of your ideas for cuts are pretty hare-brained, but let's not quibble over that)

Well. . .most are from the deficit panel's, how did you put it? Ahh yes "leaked"    recommendations released in draft form on November 10th on the federal website. http://www.fiscalcommission.gov/sites/fiscalcommission.gov/files/documents/CoChair_Draft.pdf

They claim these recomendations will bring spending down to under 22% of GDP.  I think this is still WAY too high, but it's a start, and when I hear Democrats talk about reducing spending I get a "chill running up my leg".

So, lets shoot for 4 Trillion in reduction by 2020.  We can keep lopping off heads until we reach that number.

Edit: These recommendations will never be adopted because they go against the strict Cloward–Piven strategy this administration has adopted.

[Red Arrow]

Specifics?
Ok. . .
Institute a school voucher program that forces public educators to compete for students.
How's dat?

I disagree with taking money from public schools to give to private schools.  Fix public schools.  Just throwing $ at public schools (SQ 744) is not the answer either.

[we vs us]

I disagree with taking money from public schools to give to private schools.  Fix public schools.  Just throwing $ at public schools (SQ 744) is not the answer either.

And suddenly our coalition is falling apart . . .

[Gaspar]

I disagree with taking money from public schools to give to private schools.  Fix public schools.  Just throwing $ at public schools (SQ 744) is not the answer either.

If a business has no competition it will have no drive to innovate. 

The Soviet Union lasted for 74 years.  Businesses were state run and competition was eliminated.  In 1990, soviets were still making phone calls on 1920s style phones, driving 1950s style cars, and listening to state run radio and tv on 1950s sets.

Public schools will perform at the very lowest level possible, unless their funding is based on performance rather than collective bargaining and population.

[RecycleMichael]

Why is Communist China the world's biggest consumer and strongest economy right now?

[bokworker]

Primarily because from an economic standpoint they aren't acting as true communists... it remains the biggest risk, in my opion, going forward however to remember that communism is primarily a governmental idea built around central control. I think it will be interesting to see how they continue to govern as their middle class grows and becomes more prosperous. In general as the populace becomes more prosperous they want more self control..

[Red Arrow]

Public schools will perform at the very lowest level possible, unless their funding is based on performance rather than collective bargaining and population.

I have no problem with your last statement.