The Deco District

[dsjeffries]

That map is for the legal/historic preservation side of things.   When I hear Deco District my mind automatically includes the other deco stuff in the nearby area.  The area in the map is still the center, the heart of downtown but when your there, your not going to know the exact legal lines of the historic district, (oh that one across the street you see there, that one doesnt count, nor does the big churchey thing at the end of Boston Ave ;-p ) you just know your in the center of downtown. Oh, and there are at least one or two more deco buildings right on Boston Ave. There is a little one shoved in just south of the Philcade for instance. You might miss it, but its there.  Then there is the newer building that has the art deco frieze on it, and what about the one with the Arbys in it?  I have not done the research on it to pin down whether its deco or not.  But it really has some deco elements for sure.  Nelsons Buffeteria, deco imo, the sign is definitely a visible landmark and is surely art deco.   

Nelson's Buffeteria isn't there anymore. Neither is the sign.
Main Mall Plaza (324 S. Main St., contains Arby's) isn't art deco, either.

Again, this district is limited in size, so no it absolutely doesn't include any of those other buildings. The district isn't everything within the IDL, it's a small area being promoted by businesses to increase their visibility and give a small area its own identity separate from other areas like Blue Dome, Brady, Cathedral Square, Civic Center, etc. By the very nature of a 'district', it must limited in size.

Defining an area physically and nominally for the purposes of distinction and unique identity, but then saying that the entire downtown is part of it, achieves nothing.

And while the district must be limited in size, it is certainly not limited in architectural style. The area contains dozens of different styles of architecture. Art deco, while near and dear to our hearts, isn't the most dominant style. It's not even the second, third, fourth or fifth most dominant style. Deco buildings represent 5.5%--okay, let's round up to 6%--of the buildings in that area, and no matter how many vintage cars you throw in front of a building for its grand opening, it doesn't make it art deco.

One can indeed make a good logical argument against Deco District, but if you get in the spirit of the idea, you can see how it could really work.

I guess I shouldn't let logic and facts get in the way of 'spirit'... How can a Deco district work without a large collections of art deco buildings? "Well, we really like art deco, so we're just gonna put an old 40s cruiser in front of this gothic revival building and call it 'deco' from now on." Or, "hey look down that road about half a mile--see that? That's deco, right there."

Imagine you're a tourist. You've never been to Tulsa before. You're an art deco buff and heard a part of downtown is called the Deco District. You hop in your rental car, head to the District, and spot four art deco buildings in a 15-block area.

How would that make you feel? I'd feel duped. Oh sure, if I went out of my way, I could find more art deco in the surrounding areas, but can I walk to it? (and furthermore, how would I know about those outside the "deco" district"?) Being a visitor, I don't really know the way. Is there a collection of buildings close enough together that there's even an air of art deco feel to it?

It's bad enough that most Tulsans (including the news crews) think the Mid-Continent Tower and Philtower are art deco. Let's not go and confuse everyone else and trick out-of-towners into thinking we have a real-life art deco district. We don't. We have a tremendous amount of art deco in Tulsa, but we do not have anything close to resembling an art deco district. There is simply no high concentration of art deco in that 15-block area. Geographic locality and concentration are kind of important when it comes to these things.

[waterboy]

If the purpose of (forcefully) naming the remaining downtown district is to increase its viability as a dining, drinking, entertainment friendly territory, that would be for the more enlightened, professional visitors as I suspect that 3/4 of Tulsans have no idea what a Deco is, why it is important and how much one costs. . That means some education costs. Of course I'm sure people visit Deep Ellum without much thought as to what it means as well.

Its not an objectionable or indefensible moniker. I still think the area will name itself as development continues to build and something catches the public's fancy. Did anyone really consciously champion Blue Dome, Brady or East End, Deep Ellum or Bricktown? I don't remember that. I think they just became common vernacular among the early adopters. More importantly, Deco District is a name that can co-exist with other concepts under the larger description of Downtown or whatever.

[Conan71]

Why is everyone so up in arms about someone with sweat equity in the area wanting to call it "Deco District" or "Architechtural Diversity District", etc? Are we really becoming such a literalst society or so concerned about our own paradigms that we are convinced we know better what would be a good draw. If you don't like the name or find it inaccurate, put some skin in the game by making an investment in the area and you can call it what you like.

Sheesh, BFD

[TheArtist]

Nelson's Buffeteria isn't there anymore. Neither is the sign.
Main Mall Plaza (324 S. Main St., contains Arby's) isn't art deco, either.

Again, this district is limited in size, so no it absolutely doesn't include any of those other buildings. The district isn't everything within the IDL, it's a small area being promoted by businesses to increase their visibility and give a small area its own identity separate from other areas like Blue Dome, Brady, Cathedral Square, Civic Center, etc. By the very nature of a 'district', it must limited in size.

Defining an area physically and nominally for the purposes of distinction and unique identity, but then saying that the entire downtown is part of it, achieves nothing.

And while the district must be limited in size, it is certainly not limited in architectural style. The area contains dozens of different styles of architecture. Art deco, while near and dear to our hearts, isn't the most dominant style. It's not even the second, third, fourth or fifth most dominant style. Deco buildings represent 5.5%--okay, let's round up to 6%--of the buildings in that area, and no matter how many vintage cars you throw in front of a building for its grand opening, it doesn't make it art deco.

I guess I shouldn't let logic and facts get in the way of 'spirit'... How can a Deco district work without a large collections of art deco buildings? "Well, we really like art deco, so we're just gonna put an old 40s cruiser in front of this gothic revival building and call it 'deco' from now on." Or, "hey look down that road about half a mile--see that? That's deco, right there."

Imagine you're a tourist. You've never been to Tulsa before. You're an art deco buff and heard a part of downtown is called the Deco District. You hop in your rental car, head to the District, and spot four art deco buildings in a 15-block area.

How would that make you feel? I'd feel duped. Oh sure, if I went out of my way, I could find more art deco in the surrounding areas, but can I walk to it? (and furthermore, how would I know about those outside the "deco" district"?) Being a visitor, I don't really know the way. Is there a collection of buildings close enough together that there's even an air of art deco feel to it?

It's bad enough that most Tulsans (including the news crews) think the Mid-Continent Tower and Philtower are art deco. Let's not go and confuse everyone else and trick out-of-towners into thinking we have a real-life art deco district. We don't. We have a tremendous amount of art deco in Tulsa, but we do not have anything close to resembling an art deco district. There is simply no high concentration of art deco in that 15-block area. Geographic locality and concentration are kind of important when it comes to these things.

  I am either not getting across very well what I am trying to say, or your being mean spirited and facetious.  The harsh manner of your comments suggests the latter.  But, I really do appreciate your passion and your obvious care about Tulsa, and I can see how this conversation would make you a bit angry even.  I am likely just coming at things from a different perspective and set of visions.  I can "see it" but I obviously can't get you to, and in this discussion, your right,,,, but I am right too lol and if you dont want to see what I am seeing, then there is no way you will.

[AngieB]

Why is everyone so up in arms about someone with sweat equity in the area wanting to call it "Deco District" or "Architechtural Diversity District", etc? Are we really becoming such a literalst society or so concerned about our own paradigms that we are convinced we know better what would be a good draw. If you don't like the name or find it inaccurate, put some skin in the game by making an investment in the area and you can call it what you like.

Sheesh, BFD

Agreed. I really don't get the attitude in this thread. 

We have a lot of Art Deco in this town and if that area isn't the Deco District, THEN WHAT IS?   

[Red Arrow]

It may have already been suggested but could Tulsa make a Deco Trail, something like Boston's Freedom Trail?

[dsjeffries]

  I am either not getting across very well what I am trying to say, or your being mean spirited and facetious.  The harsh manner of your comments suggests the latter.  But, I really do appreciate your passion and your obvious care about Tulsa, and I can see how this conversation would make you a bit angry even.  I am likely just coming at things from a different perspective and set of visions.  I can "see it" but I obviously can't get you to, and in this discussion, your right,,,, but I am right too lol and if you dont want to see what I am seeing, then there is no way you will.

I'm not being mean-spirited at all. I'm simply raising points that should have been raised in early discussions of naming this district. Were any of these questions asked when everyone sat around the table and voted on "Deco District"?

It's not harsh to point out that we don't have the concentration of deco within that area to name it a Deco district. I'm simply asking you to put yourself in the shoes of an outsider, and then to try to think of other options.

It's also not harsh to point out that districts need boundaries, that it's not some fluid thing that sometimes includes other areas at will because they also include art deco.

In every post, I've asked for everyone to try to think of it from another perspective. When you step back from your involvement with it, or from your affinity for art deco, or from being a Tulsan, the name just doesn't fit.

[dsjeffries]

Agreed. I really don't get the attitude in this thread. 

We have a lot of Art Deco in this town and if that area isn't the Deco District, THEN WHAT IS?   

There are four art deco buildings in that entire area. How does that make it the Deco District?

Tulsa does have a ton of art deco, but it's spread out over a large area, not concentrated in this 15-block pocket of downtown.

The title is misleading. Anyone new to Tulsa who went to visit the Deco District would feel completely misled when they found only four art deco buildings in the entire district.