Development fight of the year

[Hoss]

I didn't realize he built Target stores.

Snap!

[inteller]

I didn't realize he built Target stores.

did I say just target stores?  Or even target stores?  Is that the best comment you can come up with?  Well actually, for an INCOG sympathizer, it probably is.

Fact of the matter is INCOG are enablers for bad development...in particular bad development from this developer.  This developer is pissed because of the unfettered access he usually has to the rubber stampers is hampered by someone who has equal attention with them.  This is the same cabal who tried to ursurp the public comment process for Plantitulsa after all the meetings.  Backroom dealings are modi operandi.  If you try to insert yourself in that process, you will get figuratively "punched in the mouth"

But that's ok, because the fix is in.  The Working In Neighborhoods (to destroy them) ringleader is in the back pocket and making sure these historic neighborhood measures get tabled indefinitely.

[patric]

Gas stations on two corners is just asinine.

If you were re-designing the corner and could only keep one, which one would you choose?

[inteller]

If you were re-designing the corner and could only keep one, which one would you choose?

unfortunately, market research has shown that people are too lazy to cross the street/change directions which is why many intersections sport multiple gas stations.  crap yes, but promoted in a car centric planning regime.

also, back in the day, gas stations courted brand loyalty by advertising their gas formulation was superior, so you'd have multiple stations on a corner because people had brand loyalty to gas...so if you used phillips 66, it would be as if those other stations didn't even exist.  Such claims still exist these days (Shell V-power) but regulations make most formulations close to one another so a moot point.

[SXSW]

Maybe the gas stations would be developed if the city would invest in a streetscape of some sort. There's a lot more potential to be realized, especially now that Cherry Street comes with a lot of new young professional residents.

I've always said Cherry Street needs a streetscape, and I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet.  Nothing too elaborate, just redone sidewalks, street trees with planters, new lighting, and maybe brick paver crosswalks.  PSO didn't bury any of the overhead lines during the Brookside streetscape project but maybe that could be done here.  Not sure where the funding would come from, how was Brookside funded?

And yes, you're right about the pedestrian-friendliness of Cherry Street ending at Troost.  I'd rather see the 15th & Utica intersection look more like 15th & Peoria removing the turn lanes and having on-street parallel parking begin just west of Utica.  Losing the Phillips station and gaining a building at the NW corner would be a big improvement.

[Conan71]

I've always said Cherry Street needs a streetscape, and I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet.  Nothing too elaborate, just redone sidewalks, street trees with planters, new lighting, and maybe brick paver crosswalks.  PSO didn't bury any of the overhead lines during the Brookside streetscape project but maybe that could be done here.  Not sure where the funding would come from, how was Brookside funded?

And yes, you're right about the pedestrian-friendliness of Cherry Street ending at Troost.  I'd rather see the 15th & Utica intersection look more like 15th & Peoria removing the turn lanes and having on-street parallel parking begin just west of Utica.  Losing the Phillips station and gaining a building at the NW corner would be a big improvement.

Possibly because heavier traffic routes like Harvard between 21st & 51st resemble the Ho Chi Minh Trail still.

Cherry Street most definitely is one of the more "pedestrian" districts in Tulsa.  It's simply not been a priority for one reason or another yet.  I suspect since the corridor of Utica between 11th & 21st becoming designated as somewhat of a "medical district" turn lanes make sense.  Also remember that Cherry St. essentially becomes two lanes west of Utica and can create a bottle neck at peak hours.

[tulsabug]

unfortunately, market research has shown that people are too lazy to cross the street/change directions which is why many intersections sport multiple gas stations.  crap yes, but promoted in a car centric planning regime.

eh - I think it's more of the fact that its crossing the street in an intersection, especially in a car, is no easy task. If you're headed in one direction, why would you want to make a left into a gas station, then either make a left out of there across traffic or make a right out and then a left to get back on your original path? Making two rights is always the best move.

also, back in the day, gas stations courted brand loyalty by advertising their gas formulation was superior, so you'd have multiple stations on a corner because people had brand loyalty to gas...so if you used phillips 66, it would be as if those other stations didn't even exist.  Such claims still exist these days (Shell V-power) but regulations make most formulations close to one another so a moot point.

The formulation will be the same, but that's separate from any additives. Shell gas is superior to QT (unless you like water as an additive) and of course pure gas is always a win over any ethanol-blend.

[waterboy]

Since my cars are old and high mileage (I never put a full tank of gas in cause the vehicle could go at any time and I would have to drain the fuel out!) they sometimes break down and I have to walk Cherry to work. I cross 15th & Peoria, 15th and Utica and at lunch have occasion to negotiate 15th and Lewis. The worst is Lewis. People will kill you if you aren't paying attention. Many near misses there. They turn on red, green, yellow after a short pause and don't bother to look for pedestrians because that would mean using a turn signal, dropping the fries, putting the cell phone down and yielding to your presence. Not going to happen.

Second worst is 15th & Peoria. Very small corner sidewalk that shares telephone poles, signage, no operating walk buttons, and landscaping that blinds views for drivers. Add in the propensity for drivers to ignore the no left turn sign and you have a tricky corner for walkers.

The best is 15th & Utica. The buttons work, you can make eye contact with drivers (who show some measure of conscience) and the views are unobstructed. Crossing anywhere else on Cherry is foolish (if you're over 35 anyway).

[Red Arrow]

Making two rights is always the best move.

Two wrongs don't make a right but three rights make a left.   

[inteller]

crossing an intersection in a car isn't so bad these days, but back in the day before left turn lanes and turn lanes in general it was bad.  oklahoma isn't too bad either in that you can make more legal u turns than other states. still, thats why they call them convienence stores...if you had to cross to get to the only one at an intersection it wouldnt be very convienent.

[spartanokc]

I have a new proposal, anyone with the last name Bumgarner should be prohibited from developing in Tulsa.  Go look down through history, every shitty and controversial development in this town has that name attached to it.

That's not true.

[Gaspar]

crossing an intersection in a car isn't so bad these days, but back in the day before left turn lanes and turn lanes in general it was bad.  oklahoma isn't too bad either in that you can make more legal u turns than other states. still, thats why they call them convienence stores...if you had to cross to get to the only one at an intersection it wouldnt be very convienent.

+ for U Turns.  I had to make 5 today just to get across town with all the G*) D@mn construction.  How do you even use I44, Sheridan, Yale, Harvard, or Lewis any more?

[Conan71]

+ for U Turns.  I had to make 5 today just to get across town with all the G*) D@mn construction.  How do you even use I44, Sheridan, Yale, Harvard, or Lewis any more?

With a loaded stagecoach gun and all-terrain tires.

[PonderInc]

But wait.  I thought Tulsans wanted the city to fix the streets...

If you gripe about potholes, narrow streets, or traffic jams, you're not allowed to gripe about road repair or street widening projects and construction.  Make up your mind.  I get tired of people who b!tch about both the problem AND the solution.

[Red Arrow]

But wait.  I thought Tulsans wanted the city to fix the streets...

If you gripe about potholes, narrow streets, or traffic jams, you're not allowed to gripe about road repair or street widening projects and construction.  Make up your mind.  I get tired of people who b!tch about both the problem AND the solution.

I don't mind finding another route during construction.  Unfortunately, many times there is construction on intersecting and adjacent arterials.  I really don't like driving through someone's neighborhood but maybe we need some alternate routes (small vehicles only) through the neighborhoods during construction.  20 to 25 mph is better than hpm (hours per mile).  Either that or plan the construction a little better.