Have Christians hurt their image among non-Christians?

[guido911]

You got it right there.  The mean ones do make it miserable.

List the "mean ones" for us so I know who to avoid:

Lemme start for ya..

1.  The Pope

2. 

3.

4.

5.

[Townsend]

List the "mean ones" for us so I know who to avoid:

Lemme start for ya..

1.  The Pope

2. 

3.

4.

5.

What the Hell are you talking about?  You know the pope?

[guido911]

What the Hell are you talking about?  You know the pope?

No. But if he's mean I'll forgo any plans to visit the Vatican.  I am dying to know who the mean Christians are in your opinion.

[RecycleMichael]

I hope that we can have a rational discussion about image, perception and relationships in religion and not about the actual beliefs or even the personalities of religious leaders. I really hope we can.

I would like to keep the Pope out of this. We were doing so well...

[guido911]

I would like to keep the Pope out of this. We were doing so well...

My apologies. You are correct.

[Townsend]

With Guido name dropping like a lunatic I think I'll take the time to tell a little story.

When I moved here in '85 I'd never been exposed to the fundamentalist issues we deal with here in OK.

When I had my first discussion with a "hard core" I asked if he was joking because he'd seemed so much like anyone else I'd known.  That was when the dark clouds formed.  Suddenly I was going to "burn for all eternity" and I needed to "bring Jesus into my life".

That happened more times than it should've in my first year.

Another big one.  I was 16 and made friends with a very pretty, nice red head.  I asked her out and went over to meet her parents.  We went out and had a nice time.  The next day, she'd have nothing to do with me.  Her mother wouldn't let her date someone who didn't go to a Christian church.

I had no idea people still thought this way.

I'd been raised with a very open upbringing and was blown away by the closed mindedness I was running into here.

Fast forward 25 years and you'd see my experience with 25 years of the same crap.  Anger due to religion.

Pass.

[Red Arrow]

Another big one.  I was 16 and made friends with a very pretty, nice red head.  I asked her out and went over to meet her parents.  We went out and had a nice time.  The next day, she'd have nothing to do with me.  Her mother wouldn't let her date someone who didn't go to a Christian church.

In the long run you may have been lucky it ended quickly.  Tough at the time of course.

[Hoss]

With Guido name dropping like a lunatic I think I'll take the time to tell a little story.

When I moved here in '85 I'd never been exposed to the fundamentalist issues we deal with here in OK.

When I had my first discussion with a "hard core" I asked if he was joking because he'd seemed so much like anyone else I'd known.  That was when the dark clouds formed.  Suddenly I was going to "burn for all eternity" and I needed to "bring Jesus into my life".

That happened more times than it should've in my first year.

Another big one.  I was 16 and made friends with a very pretty, nice red head.  I asked her out and went over to meet her parents.  We went out and had a nice time.  The next day, she'd have nothing to do with me.  Her mother wouldn't let her date someone who didn't go to a Christian church.

I had no idea people still thought this way.

I'd been raised with a very open upbringing and was blown away by the closed mindedness I was running into here.

Fast forward 25 years and you'd see my experience with 25 years of the same crap.  Anger due to religion.

Pass.

Have a sister and a brother-in-law essentially the same.  Especially the brother in law.  Right after they got married, he started talking to me about 'bringing Jesus into my life'.  I told him to get stuffed, essentially.  He wants to go to school to become a pastor.  I told him good luck as I would anyone who would be studying to better themselves.  My brother told him the same.  I told him if I was going to do that, it would be on MY terms, and not anyone ministering to me.  Best way to get a door slammed in your face at my house?  Be a Jehovah's Witness or try and minister your faith to me.  I don't go out and do the same to you.

2.  Reverend (I use that term loosely) Phelps.

[heironymouspasparagus]

One problem relates to the semantics of the situation.  Many who call themselves Christian just really haven't quite embraced the true idea that Jesus was trying to get across.  (I can just imagine Him at the time rolling his eyes and saying, "Geezzzzz...won't they ever get it?  Probably STILL saying it!!)

List??
Jerry Falwell
Pat Robertson
Oral Roberts (and Richard)
Jim Baker
Jim Jones (Guyana Jim, not ex-representative Jim)
Tammy Fay
TBN
Paul and Jan

There are many more.  In general, anyone who thinks this country should be a theocracy has forgotten what Jesus said about rendering unto Caesar and rendering unto God.  Very specific that there is no such thing as a "Christian" nation - Jesus is the one who said so.  Something about how His kingdom is of Heaven, not earth.

And darn, it.  I missed the holiday parade.  Oh, well, maybe next year if the private, non-governmental, non-church sponsored parties involved will do it again.

[TulsaMoon]

There are many more.  In general, anyone who thinks this country should be a theocracy has forgotten what Jesus said about rendering unto Caesar and rendering unto God.  Very specific that there is no such thing as a "Christian" nation - Jesus is the one who said so.  Something about how His kingdom is of Heaven, not earth.

Jesus skillfully points out that the claims of God and Caesar are mutually exclusive. If one's faith is in God, then God is owed everything; Caesar's claims are necessarily illegitimate, and he is therefore owed nothing. If, on the other hand, one's faith is in Caesar, God's claims are illegitimate, and Caesar is owed, at the very least, the coin which bears his image.

The verse you have quoted speaks nothing of a Christain nation.

[Townsend]

Jesus skillfully points out that the claims of God and Caesar are mutually exclusive. If one's faith is in God, then God is owed everything; Caesar's claims are necessarily illegitimate, and he is therefore owed nothing. If, on the other hand, one's faith is in Caesar, God's claims are illegitimate, and Caesar is owed, at the very least, the coin which bears his image.

The verse you have quoted speaks nothing of a Christain nation.

More disagreement on bible interpretations?  One of the reasons I scratch my head when people push their religion.  Everyone's Jesus is different.

[heironymouspasparagus]

I won't argue that point - it is a matter of interpretation.  I just happen to interpret it to mean there is no such thing as a Christian nation on earth.  I feel it is/will be in Heaven if there is a "nation".  Actually, I guess I don't really think there is or will be a nation as we think of them.

And if someone could lay claim to be a "Christian nation" I'm thinking Italy might be up there on the list, but it don't look like they are getting the kind of 'blessings' lately that one might suppose would accrue to such a place.

[TulsaMoon]

More disagreement on bible interpretations?  One of the reasons I scratch my head when people push their religion.  Everyone's Jesus is different.

That was not a push for religion in any fashion, it was a simple observation. Where was the Christian nation mentioned? If the interpretations of this verse can be viewed as such I wanted explination. Asking someone to backup a statement should never be a reason for you to "scratch your head".

If I said " Jesus wept " ( John 11:35 ) because I did not get that new car I prayed for, would that be a correct interpretation of that verse? Or would it be ok if someone asked me to explain my train of thought?

The verse quoted concerned a trap that Jesus was placed into about paying taxes. I am not ( repeat ) not, pushing religion in any fashion. I am asking for how this is brought around to a Christian nation.

[Townsend]

I am not ( repeat ) not, pushing religion in any fashion.

My observation was not meant to point to you personally.  I was pointing out that it's different for everyone. 

I didn't feel you were pushing religion.  It was a big net I throw because I look at all organized religions with a cocked brow.

[heironymouspasparagus]

TulsaMoon,
I think we are saying similar things from different ends.  Too many people in this country claim this is a "Christian nation", while, as you stated, there is no mention of a Christian nation anywhere in the Bible.  So, in my interpretation, a Christian nation does not exist on earth.  Anywhere.

A lot of nations have Christians, but I don't think there are any Christian theocracies - or maybe my memory has holes in it.  A Christian Theocracy would seem to me to be a contradiction (if not an outright abomination or blasphemy - my opinion.)