The Arizona Massacre

[guido911]

Got it.  Republicans are psychotic killers.  Has nothing to do with one sick dude.

You got that right. Remember late last year when Florida Republican Congressman Paul Kanjorski wanted to put Gov. Scott up against a wall and shoot him? No? That's because Kanjorski is actually a democrat.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2011/01/ex-rep-paul-kanjorski-d-pa-fla-gov-rick-scott-they-ought-put-him-

And now for the inevitable "let's kill Palin" meme from the non-violent left (I cannot verify the accuracy of this site).

http://punditpress.blogspot.com/2011/01/crazed-liberals-palin-must-be.html

[Townsend]

(I cannot verify the accuracy of this site).

Speaks volumes

[Ed W]

Good advice.

[we vs us]

[Conan71]

That folks is what batshit crazy looks like.

[guido911]

That folks is what batshit crazy looks like.

Don't be so sure. According to the CjC, that's what a Tea Partier/Sarah Paliner looks like. 

[Hoss]

Don't be so sure. According to the CjC, that's what a Tea Partier/Sarah Paliner looks like. 

Pretty original Tony.  Don't forget your Cardigan when you and BB have your 'reunion' this weekend.



Oh, and BTW, pretty good article here by Dana Milbank:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/10/AR2011011005321.html

[nathanm]

Bullshit, he picked up the Goddamn gun and carried this out because he's nuts. 

Perhaps we should consider improving access to mental health care and figure out a way of keeping guns out of the hands of crazy people, whether that means making more effective use of laws already on the books or passing new laws and appropriating more money.

[cynical]

I'm quite sure that no one intended this to be taken as anything than a joke, right?



Until sometime this evening, this sticker was available for sale at the famous liberal site, patriotshop.us. 

Not to be outdone, rightwingstuff.com has its own version:



At least that one doesn't depict bullet holes in the donkey. 

Just a little harmless fun with metaphors, huh? 

[patric]

That folks is what batshit crazy looks like.

[nathanm]

The more I think about it, the more I think "crazy" is just a cop-out to avoid the responsibility which we (almost) all bear to some degree or another. Think about it: The moment somebody assassinates a political leader, they will invariably be labeled as crazy no matter how rational or irrational their thought process that led them to the assassination.

Also, statistically speaking, most assassins in the US since 1949 have not been crazy, and even the ones who were rarely the sort of delusional crazy, and even among those, they usually had a thought process that would seem rational to us sane people, just founded on mistaken assumptions.

For example (from a Secret Service-funded study in the late 90s): "Subjects who were clearly mentally ill often had defined (and technically 'rational') motives ... HJ, though psychotic, reasoned that if he attacked a high-ranking official, there would be a major investigation. During that investigation, HJ figured, the illegal CIA spy satellite system that had harassed him would come to public attention. While, in reality, there was no satellite system harassing HJ, had he attacked a senior federal official, there would have been a major investigation."

[Conan71]

Perhaps we should consider improving access to mental health care and figure out a way of keeping guns out of the hands of crazy people, whether that means making more effective use of laws already on the books or passing new laws and appropriating more money.

More laws and more money won't improve lack of compliance with present laws.

If Loughner had not been adjudicated as mentally insane, a legal U.S. citizen or legal foreign national, had not had in-patient treatment, and no prior felony he could legally purchase a weapon.  A felony should automatically be on his NCIC file.  Being judged as insane or having been in-patient at the ho-ho hotel would not necessarily wind up in someone's NCIC file.  I believe you could work within the existing framework of laws to improve reporting from various agencies but it simply illustrates how inefficient our bloated government already is.

[Conan71]

The more I think about it, the more I think "crazy" is just a cop-out to avoid the responsibility which we (almost) all bear to some degree or another. Think about it: The moment somebody assassinates a political leader, they will invariably be labeled as crazy no matter how rational or irrational their thought process that led them to the assassination.

Also, statistically speaking, most assassins in the US since 1949 have not been crazy, and even the ones who were rarely the sort of delusional crazy, and even among those, they usually had a thought process that would seem rational to us sane people, just founded on mistaken assumptions.

For example (from a Secret Service-funded study in the late 90s): "Subjects who were clearly mentally ill often had defined (and technically 'rational') motives ... HJ, though psychotic, reasoned that if he attacked a high-ranking official, there would be a major investigation. During that investigation, HJ figured, the illegal CIA spy satellite system that had harassed him would come to public attention. While, in reality, there was no satellite system harassing HJ, had he attacked a senior federal official, there would have been a major investigation."

I don't know what stats you are referring to but there's got to be something wrong with a person who can devise and carry out a very public or well-publicized deadly assault like this.  Saying he's crazy doesn't absolve him of responsibility, it's simply attaching a motive to a completely senseless crime.

Using the "insanity" defense may be a cop-out in some cases.  Fortunately, most of those cases have very good evidence that the person on trial committed the crime, they simply are sent to long-term or permanent lock-down in a high security mental institution rather than a prison.  At least they are removed from society.

[swake]

I don't know what stats you are referring to but there's got to be something wrong with a person who can devise and carry out a very public or well-publicized deadly assault like this.  Saying he's crazy doesn't absolve him of responsibility, it's simply attaching a motive to a completely senseless crime.

Using the "insanity" defense may be a cop-out in some cases.  Fortunately, most of those cases have very good evidence that the person on trial committed the crime, they simply are sent to long-term or permanent lock-down in a high security mental institution rather than a prison.  At least they are removed from society.

Crazy has to rise to the level of really not knowing or understanding right from wrong before you can discuss his not being responsible. His actions certainly seem crazy, but also show from what I have read that he certainly also knew what he was doing was wrong. The way this was premeditated over a long period of time, the notes in the safe and his smirk in his police photo show someone that is firmly in control and understands what is going on and seemingly is enjoying the ride. His hatred for the government and the Congresswoman may not be rational, but his decision to act on that hatred was his. We all probably hate something in life but don't choose to kill over it.

Think about this. 80% of murders happen between people that know each other. And over half of murders are between people that have a romantic or social relationship. Mostly these killings rise out of angry arguments where the killer loses control of his/her anger and does something really stupid that they later regret. Those killers aren't really in control of their actions, even less so than this kid, but they are still guilty of murder.

His perception of world may not be the same as other peoples, but he's very culpable for the crime. At least from what I have heard so far.

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-18836426.html

[joiei]

A thoughtful and well presented start for conversation.    http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2011/01/lets-get-this-straight.html