The Arizona Massacre

[guido911]

Regardless of who has or has not used a given term, you are aware that someone else doing something doesn't make it OK or right for you to do it?

Genius point!!! Now, if we can talk about the absence of outrage by the left over their own using that expression then we will get somewhere.

Jeez, how can you let a mother of what, five, and a grandmother, to live rent free in your heads? Good grief, I have my issues with Obama but I am not obsessed with the guy.

[Townsend]

I have my issues.

No kidding

[Conan71]

The dead horse beater has spoken.

[Hoss]

The dead horse beater has spoken.

I like this one better:

[guido911]

Conan, that vid always makes me laugh.

Anyway, it appears the Palinizing of Sheriff Dupnik (who I personally believe has fueled this "blame the right" but is within his rights to say) has officially begun:

The Sheriff, who has become infamous worldwide for innapropriately using a tragedy to push his bizarre left-wing political agenda, is himself a failed man: the father of an admitted drug addict and 'attempted' car thief daughter who was sentenced to years in an Arizona prison in 2007. Dupnik, who turned 75 January 11th, has gone on nearly every news program he can find to misdirect the cause of last weeks massacre; pushing a radical anti-American agenda trying to blame conservatives, talk radio hosts, and free speech itself for a crime which by many accounts, Dupnik himself should have been able to prevent. Perhaps upon closer scrutiny, the world will see that the real reason Dupnik is trying to obfuscate the issues is that he refused to arrest and charge Jared Loughner with drug crimes and for making numerous death threats, all acknowledged incidents which occurred over the past year.

http://www.examiner.com/la-county-libertarian-in-los-angeles/sheriff-dupnik-father-of-inmate-junkie-jailbird-was-honored-by-big-sis-janet

[dbacks fan]

Conan, that vid always makes me laugh.

Anyway, it appears the Palinizing of Sheriff Dupnik (who I personally believe has fueled this "blame the right" but is within his rights to say) has officially begun:

http://www.examiner.com/la-county-libertarian-in-los-angeles/sheriff-dupnik-father-of-inmate-junkie-jailbird-was-honored-by-big-sis-janet

Seems I remember a story about the son of a police chief in south Tulsa County that could do no wrong until he stuffed his Mustang into and apartment building.

[swake]

I have my issues with Obama but I am not obsessed with the guy.

Ya kinda are.....

[guido911]

Ya kinda are.....

Come on Swake, you know I have given Obama props on several occasions.

[swake]

Come on Swake, you know I have given Obama props on several occasions.

True, but he also has been your avatar for over two years.

[guido911]

True, but he also has been your avatar for over two years.

Point. Swake.

[Red Arrow]

Actually, the image of Palin exposing herself is not all that bad to me. Oh, such sweet confusion in my mind.

I expected that response from someone.  You may have noticed that I crossed Palin's name off. 

[joiei]

So your evidence is she put a bulls eye on someone. First, please provide the link of Palin putting a bulls eye on Giffords' image.  honestly have not seen that one.

Now,

1. Do you have any evidence that Lounger saw this map?


Maybe he was influenced by this map?

Or this map:


I guess the latter two maps from the dems and leftist kos are "reasonably minded". Very weak tea.

2. Do you have any evidence that Loughner knew Palin had even made that map?

You should fact check before posting bogus stuff.    From  Daily Kos, this is the original post which was photoshopped by someone to throw more gas on the discussion.   http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/6/25/541568/-2010-will-be-primary-season

I don't see the target that you imply Daily Kos put on their original.  Nor the arrows nor the headline.   

[guido911]

You should fact check before posting bogus stuff.    From  Daily Kos, this is the original post which was photoshopped by someone to throw more gas on the discussion.   http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/6/25/541568/-2010-will-be-primary-season

I don't see the target that you imply Daily Kos put on their original.  Nor the arrows nor the headline.   

I did fact check it. Here's a source:

http://www.examiner.com/post-partisan-in-national/is-liberal-website-responsible-for-giffords-shooting-photo

[buckeye]

buckeye, in answer to the last bit of your post, we made it nearly impossible to involuntarily commit people to mental health facilities in the 70s and early 80s. Reagan put the final nail in the coffin, but the policy of deinstitutionalization dates back much farther. That said, this guy's rantings sound no nuttier than what I hear from some of my more nutty winger family members.

It's no nuttier than the ever-popular birther bullshit, which is espoused by people on TV, either.

His main hangups appeared to be ones usually associated with the fringe of the tea party, Ron Paul, and Glenn Beck, namely goldbugism, the illegitimate flag, and all that other pseudo-libertarian hooey. I don't say that meaning that he was an adherent of the tea party or listened to Ron Paul or Glenn Beck, I'm only saying that you typically hear that stuff from people who identify with the libertarian right.

Eh, not buying it, man.    You can't seriously believe that far-righters (we'll call them) have mental issues tantamount to whatshisname.  For one thing, that would be a gigantically large instance of dangerous mental illness and I wager that wouldn't play out well in light of the facts.  Would also you assert that only the right harbors such nuttitude?  That is to say, I bet you would.  It's also a bit scary - you're essentially saying that you wouldn't be too surprised to find some of your kin out shooting up the city council.  In fact, "no nuttier" suggests said kin might be even farther afield...

In any case, one never knows what kinds of things a crazy person will take to, sometimes it's something that seems entirely innocuous to the rest of us.  That really gets back to my point - a person can't legitimately say that Glenn Beck's radio show was all the catalyst necessary to set that guy off.  For one thing, nobody has complete enough information about him to say.  Well, not in any seriously credible way.

Here's a sample of the tortured logic out there:
"Mark Pitcavage, director of investigative research at the Anti-Defamation League said his [Loughner's] writings were so formless that tying them to any coherent philosophy was impossible.

"Most of it is entirely unrelated to any ideology at all," he said.

Potok agreed on his website that Loughner was most likely influenced by ideas around him, rather than perpetrating a philosophy of his own.

"But at the same time, I think you can find clues to some of the ideas that have influenced him, and I think many of them are clearly coming from the extreme right."
"

Wait, what?  Did a grown person in a position of responsibility really let that get into print?  Good Lord...

Maybe this is all to say that one crazy person's actions do not define the nature of whatever philosophy/political belief one may be able to (however tenuously) link with them.  That tenuous linking is merely convenient fodder for those seeking any available lump of poo to hurl.  Not very convincing and it's a shame that's getting so much traction.  What's that logical fallacy that involves only observing things in a light that bolsters one's own suppositions?

It is a horrible tragedy.  It's not the gun's fault, it's not the magazine (NOT CLIP)'s fault, it's not even the loathsome Stormfront forum's fault (or Bush's), it is the ultimately inexplicable action of an insane person.  How do we address the root of the event instead of festering over all this other stuff that's really just moot?

Shame about the way mental illness is handled.  Is there anyplace or was there anytime when it was addressed effectively?  Seems like we haven't come all that far from "village idiot" days in some regards.

[nathanm]

Eh, not buying it, man.    You can't seriously believe that far-righters (we'll call them) have mental issues tantamount to whatshisname.  For one thing, that would be a gigantically large instance of dangerous mental illness and I wager that wouldn't play out well in light of the facts.  Would also you assert that only the right harbors such nuttitude?  That is to say, I bet you would.  It's also a bit scary - you're essentially saying that you wouldn't be too surprised to find some of your kin out shooting up the city council.  In fact, "no nuttier" suggests said kin might be even farther afield...

I do in fact believe that most wingnuts on both sides of the spectrum do in fact hold batsh_tinsane ideas. This is because they tell me these things. The lefties think there's some vast right wing conspiracy controlling the world in general and the US in particular. (there is a vast right wing conspiracy, even one larger than the corresponding left wing conspiracy, but it's not sinister as the crazies think; it's a well organized network of think tanks churning out nonfactual position papers on cue and a cadre of media personalities to spread them..the left has also begun to take up this tactic in the last decade, annoyingly enough) The righties think that Obama was born in Kenya, the income tax isn't legitimate, and that the gold fringe on some flags actually means something. Oh, and the FEMA concentration camps. Can't forget about those.

Statistically speaking, most assassins are not in fact insane. Calling this guy insane without evidence to back it up is just silly. Having kooky ideas about the way the world works is not evidence of insanity, it's evidence of being a kook. Loughner very likely had a logical thought process behind his actions, though his "facts" and assumptions were all wrong.