We're #3, We're #3........... in running out of smart people.

[Red Arrow]

Why would it not make a difference?

I'm getting dizzy again.

You just got done posting that it was not a significant amount to bring the salaries up to average.

[Conan71]

I realize that teacher pay is a small part of the equation of funding for schools. But here is the state comparisons. Remember the average years of experience of teachers in Oklahoma is 15 years.


Average teacher salaries for region

Oklahoma $41,053
Kansas $42,697
Missouri $42,750
Arkansas $43,580
Louisiana $45,090
Colorado $47,030
Texas $49,900
New Mexico $52,523

We are not talking about massive pay increases to get to the regional average. That would amount to a $375 a month pay raise per teacher. If we gave them half that much as a pay raise, we would at least be competitive with Kansas, Missouri, and Arkansas.

Given the cost of living and some of the horrific schools in St. Louis and Kansas City, I'd think there would be an influx of qualified candidates moving here from at least the large urban centers of Missouri. 

I've never said I was against teacher pay raises, I simply spent time digging into the issue and proving that teachers are not underpaid on a peer basis and that previous attempts at higher spending haven't given us the results we'd like to see.

I'm curious why the pay is so much higher in New Mexico, even higher than Texas.  I can see where it would be more expensive to live in Taos or Santa Fe, but some place like Raton or Roswell can't be terribly expensive a place to live.  Albuquerque can't be much more expensive a place to live than Tulsa or OKC can it?

[RecycleMichael]

I'm getting dizzy again.

Maybe you should just sit down and have a rest.

Do you not think there is a difference in attitude/performance/motivation in being the lowest paid and getting average pay?

[Red Arrow]

Do you not think there is a difference in attitude/performance/motivation in being the lowest paid and getting average pay?

Depends on how much the difference is, what working conditions are, what my cost of living is, availability of things to do when not at work......

No matter how much you make, you always want more.  Oddly enough, salary is not considered a satisfier according to some courses a former boss took at TU business school.

[swake]

I really think we need year round school. Raise teacher pay a commensurate amount for the change.

[Conan71]

I really think we need year round school. Raise teacher pay a commensurate amount for the change.

I'd agree.  You think the teacher's unions would go for that?

/Edit: Actually, that's probably the best solution of all as far as outcome and increased teacher pay, unless a year round work schedule is deemed as a negative to potential candidates.

[Breadburner]

Just throw some more money at it....Ya...That will work....

[RecycleMichael]

Just throw some more money at it....Ya...That will work....

We are having a good discussion here. Maybe you should just let others do the talking.

[waterboy]

That's rather interesting.  I thought teachers weren't moving here because our salaries are lower.  The ones who do move here must have been laid off elsewhere or they are the second income in the family unless there's another family tie which brought them here.  

Yes, second income, laid off due to bad economy elsewhere or to be near family for support. Just like any other professional I guess.



The teachers who tell you they are going for a masters to improve their pay aren't very savvy if they are planning on staying in education.  It results in about a $1600 annual pay raise.  Hardly worth the investment for what would amount to a net difference of about $70 per month.

Investment? Spoken like a truly gifted salesman engineer! They chose a profession based on their own interests which obviously are not money related. Personal satisfaction. So do social workers, paralegals and nurses. Having chosen that field you can't blame them for wanting to increase their pay while increasing their job opportunities can you?

You entirely miss the point of compensation discussion.  It's been trotted out how poorly teachers are paid vs. their peers with similar education levels and time on the job.  That's a red herring if there ever was one.  It's not a matter of pay period.  It's a matter of days worked when comparing if a teacher is paid close to their peer group.  I just posted with benefits and all calculated in a teacher is paid about $211 per day.  Take out the basic bennies $179 per day (vs. $195/day for their peer group).  Certainly if we go to year round school there should be a commensurate pay raise.  I wouldn't work significantly more hours than I agreed upon for the same money.

So if we spread their work over more months you would pay them more? Then your argument that its all about compensation seems even weaker. First, their pension plan is not all that secure or that lucrative. I had better in a corporate setting. Their insurance sounds on a par with mine at a lowly retail store. Compared with the jobs I've had, and I do have a BA, they are poorly paid. I never had a job that required so many different skills till I got into sales. Not surprising that the best salespeople are often former teachers. Its not about compensation, its about what duration that compensation is paid.

As I understand, teachers "contract" with the school system annually.  TPS lists the contracted days as 183 days.  I would assume the contract amount would be adjusted higher for more days of work.

Yeh, they contract. Some of those contracts have become temporary and dependent upon funding that may or may not be renewed. Stuff like special ed. I never had a corporate job that was so dependent on funding sources that I couldn't plan a few years ahead. They have to because the state, the feds or the student count may screw them out of a position. Just one of those perks you don't think about.

But to be perfectly clear, not all teachers must buy supplies on their own dime.

They don't have to and not all of them do. Enough do that it is worth noting. Many work to find silent donors or corporates with a heart. So, part of their job is fund raising as well.

And why not focus on outcome unless the issue is we simply want to spend more on education just for the sake of spending more on it?  Does that make good sense?  If that's the real goal and not improving results or demanding better results then that makes it even easier at saying we solved the problem.  I rather like that, give common ed $1bln more a year to spend and we can have the pride in saying we spend more than our peers on education.  We may still have crappy results, but hey, we stepped up and we spend more which makes us feel better.

Yeh, as soon as we put them on the same footing with other degreed professionals as noted above. If they are so instrumental in delivering education success in spite of the social problems surrounding their students, and less resources available than surrounding states, then fine. To put this in some perspective, what if the sales territory given to you consisted of Detroit proper? And you were to be judged, and paid, depending upon what others' estimation of that market was? The guy next to you gets Austin with the company plane. You have to travel business and pay for your own meals. You both get the same base pay but commissions make up most of your income. You game?

And finally, "Spend more money on education" is some of the most worn out political rhetoric of all.

Agreed. That's why I didn't use it! I would like to see some discussion of what the real reasons for historic, consistently low funding for common education in OK really are. Then the solutions will be forthcoming.

[Breadburner]

We are having a good discussion here. Maybe you should just let others do the talking.

Maybe you should start saving for college....

[ZYX]

But to be perfectly clear, not all teachers must buy supplies on their own dime.

No, but it goes to show how much teachers do care about quality education. If they stopped doing this, the quality of education would go down even further.

[Breadburner]

Hey...I would work 8 months a year for 5200 hundred a month plus bene's.......

[waterboy]

So would most teachers.

[ZYX]

So would most teachers.

Well said.

[Breadburner]

So would most teachers.

They do....Just talked to one over the snow break.....