Tulsa Public Schools Project Schoolhouse

[dbacks fan]

Here's the list:

http://www8.tulsaschools.org/4_About_District/_documents/pdf/_Project_Schoolhouse/ClosingSummaries.pdf

[SXSW]

Wilson Middle School closing would be interesting in that their large property fronts 11th St by TU.  That could be an opportunity for TU to expand in that direction.  That's right next to where they are renovating the old Campbell Hotel.

[Conan71]

The idea of doing K thruogh 8 sounds like a good idea as well as long as its done properly.....

Michael Jackson, is that you?

[Conan71]

Wilson Middle School closing would be interesting in that their large property fronts 11th St by TU.  That could be an opportunity for TU to expand in that direction.  That's right next to where they are renovating the old Campbell Hotel.

TPS is sitting on some valuable properties which have also become costly to maintain properly. 

I really don't see a private school taking over the Barnard site, the real estate is worth far too much and that building, though it's had improvements dates to the mid 1920's if memory serves me correctly.  I would guess there's a fair amount of deferred maintenance there which would be too much for a private school to shoulder.  Aside from that, you've got Monte Casino and Cascia just to the south.

I've seen photos of former schools like this converted to really hip apartments or condos.  However, go walk around that lot, it's HUGE, and it's a prime spot to build something far more dense there.  Multi family on that site wouldn't be terribly incongruous as there's a small condo or apartment development directly to the east of it across Lewis.

[RecycleMichael]

According to "concerned parent" on KRMG, Barnard is a poor school serving an underprivileged african-american community...

It kind of is.

It is a odd school demographic. 84% of the students who live in Barnard boundary transfer out to a different school and 94% of the students who go to Barnard transfer in from a different area. The transfers in came almost exclusively from north Tulsa schools.

I am fascinated by this. 77% of the kids are black and their parents drive them some distance to a school in a rich neighborhood (17th and Lewis), but the kids who live near this school get their kids into the magnet elementary schools.

[Breadburner]

Michael Jackson, is that you?

Haha...Nice...You are learning....

[Conan71]

It kind of is.

It is a odd school demographic. 84% of the students who live in Barnard boundary transfer out to a different school and 94% of the students who go to Barnard transfer in from a different area. The transfers in came almost exclusively from north Tulsa schools.

I am fascinated by this. 77% of the kids are black and their parents drive them some distance to a school in a rich neighborhood (17th and Lewis), but the kids who live near this school get their kids into the magnet elementary schools.

RM, can you answer me this:

I went to Barnard from '73 through '77 and it was a wonderful school.  It was an experimental program at that point as many elementary schools still used one teacher for the entire day.  From 2nd grade through 5th, I had a different teacher and different distinct subject each hour with rotating arts for 5th or 6th hour (art, drama, music).

In recent years, I'd heard it was a magnet school then a pilot school.  What exactly is a pilot school?

IMO, it seems like a school with nearly a 100% volunteer student enrollment would be a vital asset to a school district unless it served a purpose which will now be dispersed throughout the school system.  So why the rush to close it, or in spite of the transfer figures, is it only serving 200 students?

[RecycleMichael]

I think pilot was a generic term used for start-up magnet school. Barnard had an enrollment of 236 students in 6 grades (K-5).

I think that efficient schools have a few more students than that per school. It is hard to justify the expense of any pull-out teacher (PE, music, art) with so few kids.

Bottom line, TPS has 30 more schools and the same number of students than it had 40 years ago. These proposals cut that overage number in half.

[pmcalk]

We use to be in Barnard's district.  We toured it prior to sending our kids there, and decided to transfer out.  Having said that, I didn't think it was nearly as bad as some other schools.  I think it is very unfortunate that Barnard is slated for closing.  Barnard is a contributing structure in the Yorktown historic district, so not just anything can go in there in its place.  Ideally, the structure should be reused.  There are several reasons that Barnard has transfer in/transfer out rates like it does--

1.  Many years ago, Barnard was one of the top schools in Tulsa--right up there with Lee & Carnegie.  Then they hired a really bad principal.  That principal stayed there for many years, and drove a lot of families away.  Subsequent principals tried to turn it around, and attract more students (through the pilot & magnet program), but once you get a bad reputation in TPS, it takes years to turn that around. 

2.  Barnard's home school region precludes it from ever attracting that many kids.  Yes, Yorktown is part of the region, but most of Barnard's district extends south, into one of Tulsa's wealthiest areas (Woodycrest & east of Utica Square).  I don't know if "transfer out" includes those attending private schools, but I suspect that the majority of kids in that area do not & will not attend public schools regardless of their home school.

3.  A large number of the "transfer in" students are children of St. John's employees.  Obviously, very convenient for them to have their kids nearby work. 

I hope that they give this some very serious thought.  I understand the need to close schools down.  But the fact that there is such a significant number that WANT to come to Barnard should be considered.  I don't know that any other school on the closing list that has attracted so many kids.

Ideally, I think that Barnard should be transformed into the Chinese immersion program that has been discussed for years.  It was suppose to be at Grimes, but if Grimes is combined with Mayo or closed, Barnard would be a great alternative.

RM--I feel sorry for your wife.  This is going to be a tough process. 

[SXSW]

Ideally, I think that Barnard should be transformed into the Chinese immersion program that has been discussed for years.  It was suppose to be at Grimes, but if Grimes is combined with Mayo or closed, Barnard would be a great alternative.

That would be a great use.  But...I fear TPS realizes they have a valuable site on their hands and will want to sell whereas a school like Phillips, with little visibility near 36th & Hudson, would be a better option for "reuse" as a magnet school. 

[Conan71]

Let's talk a little bit about the transfer process and magnet schools.  No doubt schools like BTW, Eisenhower,  Carver, and others have benefitted from magnet school programs by attracting the best students and teachers.

By allowing the best students to transfer out of their home district and concentrate into a handful of schools, that takes the best students out of neighborhood schools which also helps lower average test scores.  Better students usually come from families who are involved in the education process and who volunteer at schools.  Better students also tend to have better leadership qualities.

IOW, magnet schools might improve the learning experience for exceptional students, but it also has the effect of cherry-picking the best students throughout the district and therefore lowering the performance at other schools.

[RecycleMichael]

There ain't a perfect school system.

The magnet schools accept students that qualify. B.T. Washington admits any qualified student in any middle school from Wilson to the north. A qualified student means a 3.0 grade average, no suspensions, minimal absentees and in the top half of their class in test scores. Other areas of town have to get lucky to get into Washington and the waiting list of qualified students is as long as the admited list.

Yes, these are the better students. But they are not impossible standards intended to only take the cream off the top. I think it gives students in middle school a solid reason to try hard. The kids, not just the parents, have to want them to get into a better school.

Magnet schools are a carrot. Yes, that carrot sometimes gets preferential teachers.

[Conan71]

There ain't a perfect school system.

The magnet schools accept students that qualify. B.T. Washington admits any qualified student in any middle school from Wilson to the north. A qualified student means a 3.0 grade average, no suspensions, minimal absentees and in the top half of their class in test scores. Other areas of town have to get lucky to get into Washington and the waiting list of qualified students is as long as the admited list.

Yes, these are the better students. But they are not impossible standards intended to only take the cream off the top. I think it gives students in middle school a solid reason to try hard. The kids, not just the parents, have to want them to get into a better school.

Magnet schools are a carrot. Yes, that carrot sometimes gets preferential teachers.

Please understand I'm not dissing the system, but it was a thought that came to me as we were talking about Barnard.  If schools on the north side and poorer areas lose their best students, it sort of brings the schools down further.  At the same time, is it right to deprive a bright child of an opportunity which might not exist at their neighborhood school?  That's a tough balancing act.

[pmcalk]

That would be a great use.  But...I fear TPS realizes they have a valuable site on their hands and will want to sell whereas a school like Phillips, with little visibility near 36th & Hudson, would be a better option for "reuse" as a magnet school. 

TPS laid out the specifics of what to consider when determining school closings, and value of the land was not one of them.  If it did factor into the equation, I know a lot of people would be very angry.  I also wonder how valuable that land really is.  It's HP zoned, and surrounded on all 4 sides by residential.  Switching even one small house to an office use was a long, drawn out battle that resulted in the Lewis study (which put some significant restrictions on switching to commercial).  I don't see that it would be converted to a commercial use.

I have seen examples of schools converted into a multifamily building, which might be kind of cool, though.

FYI, it's astounding how much traffic you see at 36th & Hudson, particularly at 5pm.  That might lessen after they fix the disaster at 41st, though.

[Conan71]

Here's a good example of adaptive re-use:

http://www.mcmenamins.com/427-kennedy-school-home

http://www.mcmenamins.com/421-old-st-francis-school-home

The former Lincoln Elementary at 15th & Peoria is a great local example of it.

http://historictulsa.blogspot.com/2009/09/belleviewlincoln-elementary-school-1909.html