Mike Huckabee: Art and music education

[custosnox]

And I appreciate you both making an honest appraisal of you identifying that with people within your own sphere of influence.  In your guys case, if it's family members it's pretty hard to disassociate with them.  I've got a small family so I'm not close to anyone who thinks or says crap like that.

I grew up in the Episcopal Church and went until mid high school.  After high school I experimented with Pentecostal and very charismatic churches because the traditional mass of the EC bored the crap out of me and was uninspiring.  While I was energized with the charismatic services at the new churches I was trying, I quickly became aware of the back-biting and hypocrisy.  It made no sense to me how my grandparents who were very moral and giving people yet weren't church-goers nor did they ever make a mention about faith around me would burn in Hell if they'd have never said the "sinner's prayer".  The cult of personality which surrounds mega pastors also disturbed me as well as the constant begging and guilting for cash.  The seeds of my disdain for organized religion were planted then, only it took another 20 or so years until I quit going all together. 

My spiritual life is personal to me and I don't wear it on my sleeve, I don't try to influence others with it, but I do seem to be in the company of a lot of people who have similar views.  I also choose to avoid people who do wear it on their sleeve and who preach intolerance and exclusion.

I have found that Christians tend to fall into one of two categories, the missionaries, and the beleivers.  The missionaries are the ones who think it is their place to convert every non-Christian into their fold (most of my family falls into this group), where as the beleivers simply beleive their way is the right way.  Yes, there are some that fall into neither, but these are far and few between.  It seems that the missionaries are the ones that tolerance never crosses their mind and look down on any other religion, or lack there of, with contempt.  The believers tend to be the more tolerant ones, but most don't have discussions on religion with these types.  That is because they aren't out trying to recruit everyone, so there is no real need to discuss it.  However, a large portion of these will still look a little sideways at anyone that says they are from a more Eastern religion (Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism ect.), and a LOT sideways at those who are of the smaller religious movements (scientology, Paganism, Wiccan ect.) or are athiest. 

Personally, in an effort to help others understand my religious standing I have decided I am going to create my own religion, defining it and naming it as I choose.  So since the majority think that everyone should have a label for their personal beliefs, I am now on a quest to name my theological standings.  In the end, this should prove to be interesting at the very least.

[nathanm]

Just because someone's beliefs go against yours, it does not certify them as insane.

I'm sure you're perfectly healthy in other parts of your life, but you have a magical thinking problem. There's nothing terribly wrong with that, but as far as I'm concerned, I'm calling a spade a spade. Tolerance doesn't mean liking things other people do or agreeing with it. If a person only tolerates that which they agree with, they are in fact quite intolerant.

You'll note I don't spend a lot of time here (or anywhere else, for that matter) talking about my beliefs on religion. That's because I think people should have the right to believe whatever they want to believe. I was only writing about it because someone asked.

In response to Conan, I'll ask a question: Given that most people are perfectly willing to shake their heads in disbelief at other examples of people believing things with no evidence or contrary to all evidence (say 9/11 truthers or UFO true believers), why is it so disrespectful to hold the same opinion about someone's spiritual beliefs? Isn't being dismissive of nonbelief equally as disrepectful in that frame of argument?

FWIW, I don't think I'm better than religious people, certainly less than a Baptist thinks they're better than an Anglican or whatever. I do think it's healthier to hold views that are subject to being proven or disproven, but that's a value judgement everybody gets to make for themselves.

[Gaspar]

I'm sure you're perfectly healthy in other parts of your life, but you have a magical thinking problem. There's nothing terribly wrong with that, but as far as I'm concerned, I'm calling a spade a spade. Tolerance doesn't mean liking things other people do or agreeing with it. If a person only tolerates that which they agree with, they are in fact quite intolerant.

You'll note I don't spend a lot of time here (or anywhere else, for that matter) talking about my beliefs on religion. That's because I think people should have the right to believe whatever they want to believe. I was only writing about it because someone asked.

In response to Conan, I'll ask a question: Given that most people are perfectly willing to shake their heads in disbelief at other examples of people believing things with no evidence or contrary to all evidence (say 9/11 truthers or UFO true believers), why is it so disrespectful to hold the same opinion about someone's spiritual beliefs? Isn't being dismissive of nonbelief equally as disrepectful in that frame of argument?

FWIW, I don't think I'm better than religious people, certainly less than a Baptist thinks they're better than an Anglican or whatever. I do think it's healthier to hold views that are subject to being proven or disproven, but that's a value judgement everybody gets to make for themselves.

Very well put.  Your position is defined.  There is no need for you to continue to define it.

[Townsend]

Very well put.  Your position is defined.  There is no need for you to continue to define it.

That coincides with 2000 years of religion for many people I know. 

If you're not taught how to argue well enough for your faith's POV then tell the person to stop talking.  If he/she doesn't stop talking then you just say "that's why it's called a faith.".

[Conan71]

In response to Conan, I'll ask a question: Given that most people are perfectly willing to shake their heads in disbelief at other examples of people believing things with no evidence or contrary to all evidence (say 9/11 truthers or UFO true believers), why is it so disrespectful to hold the same opinion about someone's spiritual beliefs? Isn't being dismissive of nonbelief equally as disrepectful in that frame of argument?

FWIW, I don't think I'm better than religious people, certainly less than a Baptist thinks they're better than an Anglican or whatever. I do think it's healthier to hold views that are subject to being proven or disproven, but that's a value judgement everybody gets to make for themselves.

It's called faith.  There's a big difference between truthers, little green men, and the spiritual world.

There have been things which have happened in my life for which coincidence would have been absolutely impossible for so many events to align to wind up with a certain outcome.  It's also impossible for me to look in the mirror in the morning or at various parts of nature and truly believe all of this is even remotely possible simply from a chain of genetic mutations and random geological gyrations.  

For most people who have faith in some sort of higher power, they've also had some sort of affirmation or proof which has led them to the beliefs they have.  You simply don't see it that way, you have a more analytical and scientific approach, apparently.  However saying things like "You have a magical thinking problem" is incredibly arrogant and intolerant.

[Red Arrow]

For most people who have faith in some sort of higher power, they've also had some sort of affirmation or proof which has led them to the beliefs they have.  

What a believer accepts as "Proof", a polite non-believer will call Faith.  This invariably leads to a "discussion" on "Proof vs. Faith".

[Conan71]

What a believer accepts as "Proof", a polite non-believer will call Faith.  This invariably leads to a "discussion" on "Proof vs. Faith".

Which is perfectly fine and good so long as everyone respects the other's standing even if it doesn't make sense to them.  When people start thinking their own understanding is superior and other's is inferior, that's where bigotry and intolerance begins.

[nathanm]

For most people who have faith in some sort of higher power, they've also had some sort of affirmation or proof which has led them to the beliefs they have.

Well, I now know at least one person who has an observation backing their faith. In all my years in church as a kid, the best people could point to was "the Lord speaking to [them]"..

Also, I have yet to meet a person of faith who doesn't think that their understanding of the world is superior to mine. That's fine with me, so long as they tolerate my having my view as I tolerate their having theirs. Most do, a few insist on praying for me, which I find rather arrogant (to borrow your word).

[Townsend]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_huckabee_obama

WASHINGTON – Former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee suggested in a radio interview that President Barack Obama's childhood in Kenya shaped his worldview — even though Obama did not visit Kenya until he was in his 20s.

The potential Republican presidential candidate told New York radio station WOR on Monday that Obama's youth led him to resent the West, which he said explains why, in Huckabee's view, Obama's foreign policy differs so greatly from that of his predecessors.

"One thing that I do know is his having grown up in Kenya, his view of the Brits, for example, (is) very different than the average American," Huckabee said, pointing to Obama's decision in 2009 to remove a bust of former Prime Minister Winston Churchill from the Oval Office.

He failed to note that Obama replaced the Oval Office fixture with a bust of one of his American heroes, President Abraham Lincoln, and moved the Churchill bust to the White House residence.

"The bust of Winston Churchill, a great insult to the British," Huckabee said. "But then if you think about it, his perspective as growing up in Kenya with a Kenyan father and grandfather . he probably grew up hearing that the British were a bunch of imperialists who persecuted his grandfather."

Any chance the conservative talking heads are not correcting him and just spewing the garbage coming from Huck?

[Townsend]

And his side:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_theticket/20110302/pl_yblog_theticket/huckabee-slams-sensationalized-coverage-of-radio-interview

Huckabee slams 'sensationalized' coverage of comments on Obama, Kenya

I'm not surprised the NY Times chose to sensationalize this story. In fact, the New York Times, the AP, and other news organizations ran with the "sensationalized story" despite being specifically told by [WOR radio host] Steve Malzberg himself that they were incorrect in their assessment of the sound bite. You just can't help but laugh when my simple slip of the tongue, becomes a huge story - and a certain Presidential candidate claiming to visit all 57 states, gets widely ignored.

That must be part of the initiation.

So there you go.

[RecycleMichael]

Also, I have yet to meet a person of faith who doesn't think that their understanding of the world is superior to mine.

You mortals crack me up.

[heironymouspasparagus]

I grew up in the Episcopal Church and went until mid high school.  After high school I experimented with Pentecostal and very charismatic churches because the traditional mass of the EC bored the crap out of me and was uninspiring.  While I was energized with the charismatic services at the new churches I was trying, I quickly became aware of the back-biting and hypocrisy.  It made no sense to me how my grandparents who were very moral and giving people yet weren't church-goers nor did they ever make a mention about faith around me would burn in Hell if they'd have never said the "sinner's prayer".  The cult of personality which surrounds mega pastors also disturbed me as well as the constant begging and guilting for cash.  The seeds of my disdain for organized religion were planted then, only it took another 20 or so years until I quit going all together.  

My spiritual life is personal to me and I don't wear it on my sleeve, I don't try to influence others with it, but I do seem to be in the company of a lot of people who have similar views.  I also choose to avoid people who do wear it on their sleeve and who preach intolerance and exclusion.

With beliefs like that, you must really feel an outcast being so conservative!  There is no one there with religious beliefs like you.  


Insight; thanks for that!  (Yes, I am being serious.  No, I am not being sarcastic.)

[Red Arrow]

There is no one there with religious beliefs like you.  

Don't be so sure.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Red,
You agnostic/anti-religion, too??  Wow, this is unbelievable.  Two conservatives with that belief system?? 
Neither of you fit into the proclaimed belief structure of the RWRE.

[Red Arrow]

Red,
You agnostic/anti-religion, too??  Wow, this is unbelievable.  Two conservatives with that belief system?? 
Neither of you fit into the proclaimed belief structure of the RWRE.

Might have something to do with your mistaken belief that everyone to the right of Nancy Pelosi is RWRE.  You are old enough to remember before the religious zealots hijacked the Republican party.  There are more of us than you think.  We just don't get the press.