Walker v. Public Employees

[guido911]

The link we vs us posted is essentially the same as what I had read (same organization, different paper). Basically, Wisconsin public sector employees are already compensated similarly to their private sector counterparts (although with less wage and more benefits) and the Governor is attempting to cut their total compensation by 10% and eliminate collective bargaining. pancakes?

There apparently is no money. So what do you want, raise taxes to pay these union members? And before you get into the Governor's tax cuts causing the budget crisis, take a look at this take down of that position pushed by Maddow (from the insipid Politifact).

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/rachel-maddows-wisconsin-budget-claim-deemed-false-by-politifact/

[guido911]

Looks like the Wis. Senate is going to move forward without the AWOL dems.

Gov. Scott Walker said the 14 minority Democrats who left Madison on Thursday were failing to do their jobs by "hiding out" in another state. And Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald said his chamber would meet Tuesday to act on non-spending bills and confirm some of the governor's appointees even if the Democrats don't show up — a scenario that should outrage their constituents.

Senate Democrats acknowledged that the 19 Republicans could pass any item that doesn't spend state money in their absence. The budget-repair bill they have been blocking requires a quorum of 20 senators to pass, while other measures require only a simple majority of the chamber's 33 members.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110220/ap_on_re_us/us_wisconsin_budget_unions;_ylt=AlEampEMBu4Ot3xx8N7xYB6b.HQA;_ylu=X3oDMTNlbmhsb2o2BGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTEwMjIwL3VzX3dpc2NvbnNpbl9idWRnZXRfdW5pb25zBGNjb2RlA21wX2VjXzhfMTAEY3BvcwMyBHBvcwMyBHNlYwN5bl90b3Bfc3Rvcmllc

[guido911]

As expected, here come the Gov. Walker death threats/wishes:

[RecycleMichael]

You have resorted to posting tweets by school children?

[nathanm]

There apparently is no money. So what do you want, raise taxes to pay these union members? And before you get into the Governor's tax cuts causing the budget crisis, take a look at this take down of that position pushed by Maddow (from the insipid Politifact).

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/rachel-maddows-wisconsin-budget-claim-deemed-false-by-politifact/

The Wisconsin equivalent of the CBO claims there is no budget crisis. Odd, that.

Also odd that you equate the rantings of random people on Twitter with the rantings of high profile political figures.

And yes, if a government can't meet its obligations and its employees are already underpaid I expect it to either raise taxes to meet the shortfall, borrow, or downsize.

[guido911]

You have resorted to posting tweets by school children?

Resorted? School children? This is the same sorta crap that happened after the Tucson shooting and political/public figures. You okay with that?

[nathanm]

[Red Arrow]

And yes, if a government can't meet its obligations and its employees are already underpaid I expect it to either raise taxes to meet the shortfall, borrow, or downsize.

You would rather downsize than offer the option of reduced wages/benefits?

[guido911]

I expect it to either raise taxes to meet the shortfall, borrow, or downsize.

Raise taxes on whom? Oh I know, everyone but you.

[nathanm]

You would rather downsize than offer the option of reduced wages/benefits?

I'd rather downsize than unilaterally force the employees to become even more underpaid, yes.

Edited to add: negotiating a lower wage is fine, too. People can work for whatever they want, obviously. Let's keep in mind that the union offered Walker the cuts he was looking for but he refused because it's not about the money, it's about busting the union.

[guido911]

I'd rather downsize than unilaterally force the employees to become even more underpaid, yes.

And downsizing is what will happen if Walker's changes are not implemented. Many many thousands hit the streets just so those that have worked longer get to collectively bargain.

[nathanm]

And downsizing is what will happen if Walker's changes are not implemented. Many many thousands hit the streets just so those that have worked longer get to collectively bargain.

How about you come back when you  have command of the facts, eh?

[Red Arrow]

I'd rather downsize than unilaterally force the employees to become even more underpaid, yes.

Edited to add: negotiating a lower wage is fine, too. People can work for whatever they want, obviously. Let's keep in mind that the union offered Walker the cuts he was looking for but he refused because it's not about the money, it's about busting the union.

You got your edit in before I could respond.  I'll agree, for now, that Walker should accept the concessions and move on.  

Have you ever been in the position of taking a cut or losing your job?  I have.  I took the cut to try to save the company.  Ultimately the company went under but not for the lack of the will of the employees.

As a sidebar, I don't see much difference conceptually between busting a union and forcing a union on a group that doesn't really want one by the "usual tactics". It only depends on which side you are on.

[nathanm]

As a sidebar, I don't see much difference conceptually between busting a union and forcing a union on a group that doesn't really want one by the "usual tactics". It only depends on which side you are on.

I was under the impression that, in general, the employees get to vote on whether or not to unionize..

[Red Arrow]

I was under the impression that, in general, the employees get to vote on whether or not to unionize..

I have no problem with a secret ballot.  I forget the term for the not secret ballot that the unions generally push for.  Leaves a lot of opportunity for "peer pressure".