Can't say I didn't see this coming

[dbacks fan]

Meanwhile another restaurant is slated to open on the river in Jenks, this one by the hotel and aquarium south of the bridge.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=298&articleid=20110224_298_0_JENKSW713817

Seems like a lofty ambition, and maybe a little pricey on the food side.

[Breadburner]

I give it 6 months.....

[DolfanBob]

Meanwhile another restaurant is slated to open on the river in Jenks, this one by the hotel and aquarium south of the bridge.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=298&articleid=20110224_298_0_JENKSW713817

The soft opening is March 5th and the Grand opening is March 7th.
So far I have been told that he is going to keep the prices on the lower to mid range side.

[Red Arrow]

"The food is a mix of traditional American fare, with seafood, steaks and burgers served in a price range of about $10 for burgers to $40 for steaks and seafood"

Read more from this Tulsa World article at http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=298&articleid=20110224_298_0_JENKSW713817

I guess I'm not part of his target audience.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Name calling?  How original.  Just what would be expected.

Have you ever actually stood anywhere along the west bank at looked at the water?  Remember those big brown puffy clouds of foam that occasionally come drifting by?  And the lighter foaming of the water in so many areas.  That is sewage.  Most the time treated.  During a big rain or some other high water flow event - it is raw sewage.  Too bad one can know so little about their surrounding.

Doesn't even count the oil sludge discharges.  But the EPA has been working with them for years and it's getting better every year.  There's even a WalMart on the site of the old Zink smelter now.  How great is that!!  Having Keystone lake to periodically flush it doesn't hurt, either. 

There may be hope after all!!  Good thing we don't have to drink that water isn't it?  Sorry Muskogee!

Good thing we even HAVE an EPA left to help clean up that river and surrounding area, huh?

[DTowner]

$5.5 million is an large sum to invest in a free standing restaurant in Tulsa/Jenks and not have large corporate/chain buying power, marketing and name recognition backing you up.  He has a lot of experience in the business, but I'm glad it's not my money at risk.

[Townsend]

$5.5 million is an large sum to invest in a free standing restaurant in Tulsa/Jenks and not have large corporate/chain buying power, marketing and name recognition backing you up.  He has a lot of experience in the business, but I'm glad it's not my money at risk.

Maybe he can be the Elliot Nelson of Jenks.

[Breadburner]

Maybe he can be the Elliot Nelson of Jenks.

He already is...They both make shitty Mexican food......

[Conan71]

He already is...They both make shitty Mexican food......

Bahahahahahaha!

[AquaMan]

Name calling?  How original.  Just what would be expected.

Have you ever actually stood anywhere along the west bank at looked at the water?  Remember those big brown puffy clouds of foam that occasionally come drifting by?  And the lighter foaming of the water in so many areas.  That is sewage.  Most the time treated.  During a big rain or some other high water flow event - it is raw sewage.  Too bad one can know so little about their surrounding.

Doesn't even count the oil sludge discharges.  But the EPA has been working with them for years and it's getting better every year.  There's even a WalMart on the site of the old Zink smelter now.  How great is that!!  Having Keystone lake to periodically flush it doesn't hurt, either. 

There may be hope after all!!  Good thing we don't have to drink that water isn't it?  Sorry Muskogee!

Good thing we even HAVE an EPA left to help clean up that river and surrounding area, huh?

I simply cannot let this go. Now you've made me break my vows of silence. Its no wonder Conan got snippy with you Heiro. You are perpetuating allegations about the river that have been repeated so often, and have been so poorly challenged, that they now have urban legend status. I agree one should know more about their surroundings, including you.

So, if you really think your hypotheses that the airy, sandy little mounds of foam sometimes seen on the river are the result of Sand Springs sewage, and that oil sludge is discharged into the river, maybe you could answer these questions:
   
a.   Why do the foam mounds only occur infrequently and are so widespread? In fact so infrequent that they coincide with the change in seasons?
b.   Why are there floating foam mounds found upstream of where the sewage treatment plant is located? In fact, right below the dam? In fact on lakes and streams no where near treatment plants?
c.     Do you even know where the most pollution comes from on this river? Hint, its not near a sewage treatment plant or a refinery, or a pipeline.
c.   Why don't the little mounds of foam smell? Why are they gritty?
d.   Who exactly is putting oil sludge into the river, where can it be seen and how do you know the EPA is involved in reducing it? Seems like that would be pretty well known by those of us who actually use the river (rather than stand on its banks).
e.   Who are "they" and "them"?

Here's a better description of what's happening on that river. I had reason to research it since I have spent the better part of the last decade in, around and on it. Like most things the floating mounds are the result of several factors, none of which are terribly scary. It was described to me by a fellow with a biology degree and good insights.

a.   It happens seasonally, not all year long (yet the treatment plants work 24/7) because at the end of the winter the spring rains from upstream and in the watershed begin to fill up Keystone and they have to discharge large amounts into the river. That means discharges of cold, dense, low oxygen water that has recently been up to 70 feet below the spillway.
b.   That cold water is laden with bacteria, (common in all lakes and streams) which suddenly is released as it is propelled into the warm shallow river below.
c.   Keystone lake is salty on the Cimarron side because that river has tributaries that are salty. The salt is part of the froth.

As far as the oil sludge I just don't know where you're seeing it or who would be doing it. There are some capped wells along all the rivers in this part of the country but nothing you could call sludge. I sometimes see the result of past discharges by analyzing the rocks from different areas that I collect as a hobby, but nothing indicates recent discharges. Oil stinks too, seems like I would have smelled it.

In fact H, the river is surprisingly clean upstream of Zink Lake and clear as well. On a hot summer day you can see the catfish and bass moving around. They are the best indication of a healthy river. You should float it sometime.

I know its popular to trash the river, the Arena, the Riverwalk, Downtown, the burbs, etc. Heck, I've been guilty of it, but being factual is pretty important. Part of the problem of not realizing the potential of our river and our area is the promulgation of these myths.

Thanks

[ZYX]

I knew it was you when I saw the name....

Also, thanks for clarifying heironomous's wisdom.

[Townsend]

I knew it was you when I saw the name....

Dad just slapped mom at the dinner table.

[Conan71]

Name calling?  How original.  Just what would be expected.

Have you ever actually stood anywhere along the west bank at looked at the water?  Remember those big brown puffy clouds of foam that occasionally come drifting by?  And the lighter foaming of the water in so many areas.  That is sewage.  Most the time treated.  During a big rain or some other high water flow event - it is raw sewage.  Too bad one can know so little about their surrounding.

Doesn't even count the oil sludge discharges.  But the EPA has been working with them for years and it's getting better every year.  There's even a WalMart on the site of the old Zink smelter now.  How great is that!!  Having Keystone lake to periodically flush it doesn't hurt, either. 

There may be hope after all!!  Good thing we don't have to drink that water isn't it?  Sorry Muskogee!

Good thing we even HAVE an EPA left to help clean up that river and surrounding area, huh?

Considering Waterboy/Aqua Man and I have spent a lot of time on the Arkansas River, you tried to slip one past a couple of people who actually use the river and know what goes on and doesn't go on with the river.  In addition, one of my fellow teammates at Tulsa Rowing Club works for the Feds as an environmentalist for the fish and game service.  According to her, there's no oil sludge being discharged upstream and there's nothing leaching out of the Least Tern islands either.  There was an incident with the Sinclair Refinery for an "accidental" discharge for which I believe they were fined $5mm.

Repeating what Aqua Man said, this is how myths keep getting perpetuated about the river.  I've also worked around the waste water industry for the better part of 16 years providing chemicals and equipment to it.

Again, I suggest you stick to topics you have real knowledge of rather than spreading incorrect rumors.

[guido911]

Again, I suggest you stick to topics you have real knowledge of...

What exactly would that be?

[Conan71]

What exactly would that be?

Rove, Bush, Murdoch, RWRE for example