Fallin cuts top tax rate, says state revenue growth is enough.

[Red Arrow]

Since I don't have figures at hand for county/local tax collections all I can say is that at least as far as state-levied taxes go we're better off than Texans, even with more stuff being taxed.

One of my friends that lived near Houston for about 10 years would probably agree.  It might depend somewhat on your relative economic well being.  My friend was (now retired) an engineer.

[AquaMan]

Don't forget Texas is not the only state with no income tax, South Dakota, Wyoming, FL, Nevada, Washington and a few others have no income tax and they are all doing well, soon Oklahoma may joint the list of no-income tax states. I don't know what the prop taxes rates are in other states with no income tax. Most states do not tax food either.

Here are two of those states that have no income tax that you think are doing well:

Nevada....12.9% unemployment rate ....#51 ranking...highest unemployment in the nation
Florida....9.9% unemployment rate....#45 ranking
In fact only 2 of the states without income tax (you didn't mention Tennessee #35, Alaska #21, New Hampshire #4) are in the top half of the states rankings of unemployment. Texas is at #25. This according to the Bureau of Labor statistics.

So, it looks like their zero income tax is about as helpful as Oklahoma's Right to Work laws. Which is to say...not.

[AquaMan]

Oklahoma has somewhat lower rates than our neighbors on many taxes.  The problem is that we tax almost everything.  Reminds me of the Beatles song about the Taxman.

We should look forward to more of that. The problem with OK's tax system lies in collections. We tax a lot of things which means it is an unwieldy, hard to enforce system that is subject to a lot of cheating and evasion.

[Hoss]

We should look forward to more of that. The problem with OK's tax system lies in collections. We tax a lot of things which means it is an unwieldy, hard to enforce system that is subject to a lot of cheating and evasion.

Case in point: the Use Tax.  Do you remember the commercials they've just started airing regarding that in the last two years or so?

[Red Arrow]

Here are two of those states that have no income tax that you think are doing well:

Nevada....12.9% unemployment rate ....#51 ranking...highest unemployment in the nation
Florida....9.9% unemployment rate....#45 ranking

This according to the Bureau of Labor statistics.

So, it looks like their zero income tax is about as helpful as Oklahoma's Right to Work laws. Which is to say...not.

You took the time to look them up.  What about the other states without income tax?

Right to Work... How are the states without RTW laws doing?

I'm too lazy or don't care enough but since you have already done the legwork, how about putting them all up.

[Red Arrow]

Case in point: the Use Tax.  Do you remember the commercials they've just started airing regarding that in the last two years or so?

Yep but OK is not the only state playing that game.

[AquaMan]

You took the time to look them up.  What about the other states without income tax?

Right to Work... How are the states without RTW laws doing?

I'm too lazy or don't care enough but since you have already done the legwork, how about putting them all up.

I just modified the post to list all the states that have no income tax. Not very impressive. Only one state was above a #21 ranking in unemployment.

As far as RTW, that's a different subject. No motivation to look up other states. Suffice it to say that it was sold to Oklahomans the same way and guys like Stinky Cabbage believed it. I didn't see the mass influx of good jobs move in either.

[nathanm]

Case in point: the Use Tax.  Do you remember the commercials they've just started airing regarding that in the last two years or so?

Someday the Federal government will step in and end the madness. Online retailers have no excuse, at least with respect to Streamlined Sales Tax member states, for not collecting tax. There are companies that provide tax rate lookups and submit returns on a retailer's behalf for no charge to the retailer; the state pays the service provider a percentage of collections. The problem is that buying into the system, even for no money, puts the individual retailer at a disadvantage.

Point being that I understand why they choose not to collect sales/use tax when they don't have to, but given the minimal cost involved they should be required to collect for streamlined states given how easy they've made it on the retailer.

[Red Arrow]

As far as RTW, that's a different subject. No motivation to look up other states.

You thought it was important enough to mention.

[AquaMan]

You thought it was important enough to mention.

I didn't mention it in regards to other states. I said it appears that zero income tax in those states is about as effective as RTW in Oklahoma. Are you asserting that OK's failure to attract employment with their RTW law has some relation to other states zero income tax policies? Perhaps they also fell for that one too. That might be worth looking up. I could also add that OK touted compact gambling in casinos would increase school funding, when in fact per pupil expenditure is stagnant regardless of how well the casinos have done.

We have got to stop thinking that our basic failures to educate, enlighten and nurture our state's population can be remedied by simply eliminating taxes, tax waste, unions and welfare.

[AquaMan]

Sauer. You want to dispute the Bureau of Statistics numbers for unemployment in zero income tax states? No? There goes your argument.

[Red Arrow]

I didn't mention it in regards to other states. I said it appears that zero income tax in those states is about as effective as RTW in Oklahoma. Are you asserting that OK's failure to attract employment with their RTW law has some relation to other states zero income tax policies? Perhaps they also fell for that one too. That might be worth looking up. I could also add that OK touted compact gambling in casinos would increase school funding, when in fact per pupil expenditure is stagnant regardless of how well the casinos have done.

We have got to stop thinking that our basic failures to educate, enlighten and nurture our state's population can be remedied by simply eliminating taxes, tax waste, unions and welfare.

I just know that you are so pro-union that, in my opinion, you believe that making union membership mandatory is the cure to our economic woes.  I hope that perception is incorrect. 

Oklahoma's spending on education is a mixed bag.  We pass legislation to insure that new money is dedicated to education and then take money that was already being spent on education and use it elsewhere.  Money is not the cure to education, an attitude among parents is more important but there is a threshold below which a quality education is not possible.  For the record, I have voted for almost every education based revenue enhancement I can remember.  There may have been a few that I believed to be bogus but I don't remember them at the moment.

We need to be business friendly but low taxes are not the only issue.

[AquaMan]

Someday the Federal government will step in and end the madness. Online retailers have no excuse, at least with respect to Streamlined Sales Tax member states, for not collecting tax. There are companies that provide tax rate lookups and submit returns on a retailer's behalf for no charge to the retailer; the state pays the service provider a percentage of collections. The problem is that buying into the system, even for no money, puts the individual retailer at a disadvantage.

Point being that I understand why they choose not to collect sales/use tax when they don't have to, but given the minimal cost involved they should be required to collect for streamlined states given how easy they've made it on the retailer.

That is the most visible avoidance of the myriad of taxes OK tries to levy. Take another. All limousines must be registered, insured, inspected, tagged as commercial operations, pay quarterly sales taxes and comply with commercial transportation laws. Yet many of the limo's you see driving around town are outlaw. They don't have trained drivers, aren't commercially insured because they aren't commercially tagged which means passengers would have to sue the operator for damages cause the insurance company knows fraud when they see it. Needless to say they aren't paying licensing fees, unemployment comp for their employees, with-holding, sales taxes etc. Zero income tax? They don't even pay it now.

In my experience from working in many different occupations, I would guess that about 15% of businesses are avoiding what they consider onerous regulations and taxes. Drop most of them in favor of a more concise, well regulated, well enforced set of taxes and compliance would increase.

[AquaMan]

I just know that you are so pro-union that, in my opinion, you believe that making union membership mandatory is the cure to our economic woes.  I hope that perception is incorrect. 

Oklahoma's spending on education is a mixed bag.  We pass legislation to insure that new money is dedicated to education and then take money that was already being spent on education and use it elsewhere.  Money is not the cure to education, an attitude among parents is more important but there is a threshold below which a quality education is not possible.  For the record, I have voted for almost every education based revenue enhancement I can remember.  There may have been a few that I believed to be bogus but I don't remember them at the moment.

We need to be business friendly but low taxes are not the only issue.

So because you errantly believe that I am solidly pro-union you avoid the real purpose of the posts. That's not fair. RTW didn't do what it promised. Casino gambling did not produce higher expenditures per pupil for education. Zero Income Tax will not do what Stinky Cabbage thinks it will. These are simplistic notions.

And some day we will be able to test your theory of more money per pupil does not cure education when we actually try it. I refuse to believe that our feedstock is inherently inferior to surrounding states.

As far as unions, I believe that neutering unions by law is counterproductive to all parties to business. Balance is essential to progress in most companies. When labor is represented well or treated well you have balance. You lose that balance you have no checks and balances and excesses ensue.  Neither do I believe that an overbearing, arrogant union is useful. I have a union where I work and have chosen not to participate because with RTW it is pointless. Very weak union. My employer visits union meetings (we're a member of a large union that represents many other types of companies) and writes down the names of participants from our industry for future use. It isn't to give kudos to them later. Its truly Industrial Age behavior.

[AquaMan]

Here are two of those states that have no income tax that you think are doing well:

Nevada....12.9% unemployment rate ....#51 ranking...highest unemployment in the nation
Florida....9.9% unemployment rate....#45 ranking
In fact only 2 of the states without income tax (you didn't mention Tennessee #35, Alaska #21, New Hampshire #4) are in the top half of the states rankings of unemployment. Texas is at #25. This according to the Bureau of Labor statistics.

So, it looks like their zero income tax is about as helpful as Oklahoma's Right to Work laws. Which is to say...not.

Oh my. This is interesting. The only two states to be in the top half of unemployment rankings on your list of zero income tax states are the only two states on your list to NOT have Right To Work laws!

Alaska, ranked #21 in unemployment and is NOT a Right to Work state. (How did Palin let that happen?)
New Hampshire ranked #4 in unemployment and is NOT a Right to Work state.

So, indeed there seems to be a correlation with RTW, Zero Income Tax and high levels of unemployment.