Unions and the Wisconsin Governor

[Hoss]

Every time you get caught you change the subject or post a video of liberals behaving badly to somehow prove your point.

I don't know if you are ADD, filled with red herring, or partying with Charlie Sheen.

He has a 10000 year old brain with the boogers of a 7 year old...

[nathanm]

The "reason" for insisting on the collective bargaining is for future budgets, not just this year's.  That's what I've heard but I don't remember the timing regarding campaign vs. now.

So basically he's saying that to save the budget in the future, he has to have the ability to unilaterally dictate pay without any sort of negotiation, even though the union has shown willingness to compromise when the budget demands it. (although in this case, the budget didn't demand it, millions of dollars in tax breaks did, and they're still going along with it..)

[guido911]

Every time you get caught you change the subject or post a video of liberals behaving badly to somehow prove your point.

I don't know if you are ADD, filled with red herring, or partying with Charlie Sheen.

Fine, if you want to argue Nate's point that making policy decisions based upon ideology is childish, we can do that. Just remember you will be being a huge hypocrite.

[RecycleMichael]

I admire you guido. Even when you are completely wrong, you don't give up.

Yes. It does take one to know one.

[guido911]

So basically he's saying that to save the budget in the future, he has to have the ability to unilaterally dictate pay without any sort of negotiation, even though the union has shown willingness to compromise when the budget demands it. (although in this case, the budget didn't demand it, millions of dollars in tax breaks did, and they're still going along with it..)

Dictate pay? I thought collective bargaining restrictions were limited to benefits and not pay. As for the rest, are we channeling Maddow today?

[Red Arrow]

Question:

If the Governor's position on collective bargaining is purely based on ideology, why is the Unions' position not also based purely on ideology?  If the Unions' position is not based purely on ideology, does that give credibility to the governor's position?

[nathanm]

Fine, if you want to argue Nate's point that making policy decisions based upon ideology is childish

That's not what I said and if you don't know that by now, you should since I've tried to explain it to you at least three times so far. Ideology is a fine starting point, but this being a democracy rule should be by consensus, not fiat, so compromise is necessary. It's childish to refuse to compromise when you've already gotten what you originally claimed to want.

You have in the past complained about my moving the goalposts. Why won't you condemn Walker's moving the goalposts? Oh, right, double standard.

[nathanm]

Question:

If the Governor's position on collective bargaining is purely based on ideology, why is the Unions' position not also based purely on ideology?  If the Unions' position is not based purely on ideology, does that give credibility to the governor's position?

As I mentioned in my last post, ideology is not the issue, it's the refusal to compromise in the slightest. The unions have compromised. If it were solely about ideology for them, they would have refused to submit to pay and benefit cuts. Walker refuses to drop the attack on collective bargaining even though he has the fix he needs for the budget already in hand.

Basically, what I'm calling childish is being a slave to ideology.

[Red Arrow]

Dictate pay? I thought collective bargaining restrictions were limited to benefits and not pay.

I have also heard that to be the case.

[guido911]

I admire you guido. Even when you are completely wrong, you don't give up.

Yes. It does take one to know one.

I recall you were the one who posted as a matter of fact that, "He [Walker] clearly made a deal with four of the unions before the election" [Emphasis mine], and when pressed for a source for that BS, tucked tail into a pitiful excuse mode. Don't you have kin that is a member of the TPS school board?

[guido911]

That's not what I said and if you don't know that by now, you should since I've tried to explain it to you at least three times so far. Ideology is a fine starting point, but this being a democracy rule should be by consensus, not fiat, so compromise is necessary. It's childish to refuse to compromise when you've already gotten what you originally claimed to want.

You have in the past complained about my moving the goalposts. Why won't you condemn Walker's moving the goalposts? Oh, right, double standard.

Dammit Nate, I posted on several occasions that the unions KNEW that Walker was going to address collective bargaining before he was elected. Walker won. Democracy ruled. You, those 14 dem coward state senators, and the unions just cannot accept that elections have consequences.
Remember?

[Red Arrow]

As I mentioned in my last post, ideology is not the issue, it's the refusal to compromise in the slightest. The unions have compromised. If it were solely about ideology for them, they would have refused to submit to pay and benefit cuts. Walker refuses to drop the attack on collective bargaining even though he has the fix he needs for the budget already in hand.

Basically, what I'm calling childish is being a slave to ideology.

Ideology is not just about short term pay and benefit cuts.  It is about how to take care of the future too. Works on both sides.  Or I could just say the Union while looking out for their future influence is also being a slave to the ideology of collective bargaining for benefits.

[nathanm]

Dammit Nate, I posted on several occasions that the unions KNEW that Walker was going to address collective bargaining before he was elected. Walker won. Democracy ruled. You, those 14 dem coward state senators, and the unions just cannot accept that elections have consequences.

I seem to remember you having a serious problem with that concept from 2006 right on up to late 2010.

Red Arrow, you could say that, but you'd be..misleading. After all, the unions have compromised. Walker has not. One is being a slave to ideology. The other demonstrably not.

[Red Arrow]

Red Arrow, you could say that, but you'd be..misleading. After all, the unions have compromised. Walker has not. One is being a slave to ideology. The other demonstrably not.

We'll just have to disagree about the Unions being a slave to ideology.  I believe they have given up a few relatively inconsequential items to look good to the public while holding on to the item they hold dearest.

[RecycleMichael]

Don't you have kin that is a member of the TPS school board?

Red herring day for you.

Oh, look over here.