Unions and the Wisconsin Governor

[Teatownclown]

More union dooshbaggery on display.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/119434564.html?tab=video

"This is our House" Blah blah blah.

Actually, it's a Koch hose house!

[heironymouspasparagus]

RA,
Geez... step away from the Kool Aid!!!
It still applies today.  As recently as this afternoon.  (Wisconsin.  John Pickle company.)

If there were any competition in the compensation package for worker bees, you wouldn't see every corporation you know about doing a "comparative analysis of compensation packages".  That is code work for price fixing, just wrapped in a pretty sugar coated dough with a tasty juicy center.  Kind of like those donuts that Daylight has - cream cheese or raspberry center.  Yum!

And the second part of the chant is that there is NO cola (cost of living adjustment), but isn't it interesting how "merit raises" average mostly across the board just slightly behind the official rate of inflation?

[Red Arrow]

RA,
Geez... step away from the Kool Aid!!!
It still applies today.  As recently as this afternoon.  (Wisconsin.  John Pickle company.)

If there were any competition in the compensation package for worker bees, you wouldn't see every corporation you know about doing a "comparative analysis of compensation packages".  That is code work for price fixing, just wrapped in a pretty sugar coated dough with a tasty juicy center.  Kind of like those donuts that Daylight has - cream cheese or raspberry center.  Yum!

And the second part of the chant is that there is NO cola (cost of living adjustment), but isn't it interesting how "merit raises" average mostly across the board just slightly behind the official rate of inflation?

Let me know when you stop drinking the Union Kool-Aid.

[heironymouspasparagus]

I have been in union for a short time ("The Brotherhood" - IBEW) and have been mostly OUT of unions.  Have had to deal with them in New Jersey, Detroit, New York City, and Boston.  Yeah, that can be a less than satisfying experience from time to time - ok, yeah, it can be a pain in the butt. 

But the truth is still the truth.  You wouldn't have anywhere near what you do have - and more importantly, you would have lost a lot more than you have lost in recent years - without them!


Kind of a side question; do you really believe the "comparative analysis of compensation packages" story??  (Maybe I should try to hire you and find a place in the organization.  We seem to have enough in common, it might be fun.  Certainly interesting, if nothing else.)

[Conan71]

My company is purposely a non-union shop in a very union-dominated industry.  The founder of the company was a union guy himself learning the trade in Chicago.  When he formed his own company, he didn't want thugs telling him how he would run his business and he had a poor taste in his mouth for some of the nefarious places union dues wind up.

The guys in our shop are paid very close to their unionized peers with one clear advantage: no union dues.  They also get great bennies.

[Breadburner]

My company is purposely a non-union shop in a very union-dominated industry.  The founder of the company was a union guy himself learning the trade in Chicago.  When he formed his own company, he didn't want thugs telling him how he would run his business and he had a poor taste in his mouth for some of the nefarious places union dues wind up.

The guys in our shop are paid very close to their unionized peers with one clear advantage: no union dues.  They also get great bennies.

They get speed....I bet that increases production.....

[we vs us]

My company is purposely a non-union shop in a very union-dominated industry.  The founder of the company was a union guy himself learning the trade in Chicago.  When he formed his own company, he didn't want thugs telling him how he would run his business and he had a poor taste in his mouth for some of the nefarious places union dues wind up.

The guys in our shop are paid very close to their unionized peers with one clear advantage: no union dues.  They also get great bennies.

If the industry is union dominated, wouldn't they realistically set the wage floor for all workers, even in non-union shops?  I'd think your boss would have to match union pay to attract quality workers. 

[Conan71]

If the industry is union dominated, wouldn't they realistically set the wage floor for all workers, even in non-union shops?  I'd think your boss would have to match union pay to attract quality workers.  

Nope, that's not how it works in this market.  There are comparatively few union welders, fitters, and fabricators in Tulsa which are the sorts of jobs we provide.  Supply and demand is what helps determine wage here.  Tulsa has had a chronic shortage of employable (can pass a piss test, good transportation, etc) welder/fitter types for at least five years.  Tulsa's large base of heat exchanger manufacturing ensures pretty stable employment and great wages for non-union manufacturing employees.  

In a right to work state, the free market determines wages, not unions.  States with good economies and sensible immigration policies which help protect jobs for legal guest workers and citizens will have very competitive wages because companies necessarily must offer great bennies and pay to get the best workers.  All employing union workers guarantees is that you will fill the positions with whomever the union wants to use.  Sure there are great workers in the union pool.  But there are also crappy ones who can file grievances and stall as long as possible prior to being fired.  A company can fire a non-union slacker or trouble-maker and provide a good job to a good worker a whole lot easier without a union.

Guys who work for the union hall might get sent out on a large project for 8-12 months then sit idle for a few months waiting for the union to send them back out.  A friend of mine is a union heating and air guy (large commercial chillers & boilers) in OKC.  He refuses to work for non-union shops so he finally gave up and started teaching at a tech for lower wages.  There just aren't that many union shops in Oklahoma.  Good chiller and boiler techs can make great wages without the assistance of a union.

And when I referred to our industry as being very union-dominated, I was speaking to it on a nationwide basis.  The union involvement locally is the local union hall which contracts out for large power plant projects around the country or temporary help on some local piping projects.  It functions somewhat as a temp agency with benefits for it's members.

[heironymouspasparagus]

The coming and going of companies is kind of strange in heat exchangers.  There are some that are rock solid, then others that are in and out before you can blink.

The shortage exists because of the lower wages.  I know a couple guys, one who went to Minnesota (of all places!) and one to Texas.  Both doing better in real terms than here.  Goes to the point of all the different people (family/friends) who have left this state for better opportunities elsewhere.  All do better in real terms than here taking into account ALL of the other factors that constitute cost of living.  One was working at local company in T and OKC, at least until they got bought out recently.  Still waiting to see how that goes.  He makes a weld bead in stainless tubing (oilfield coolers) that would make you cry for joy!

I was department manager of local company for a while with a boss (President) who actually bragged to me how cheap he was able to get some engineers.  (You can imagine what I thought about that...)  Well, it didn't last long and EVERY penny he saved, plus about an extra 60% is what it cost him due to turnovers. 

Good welders/fitters/fabricators who aren't locked down to Tulsa by family or some other very extreme circumstance are in Houston, Midland, Louisiana.  Or just somewhere else.  (NO, that doesn't mean we don't have good people - we have great people.  It means they are stuck here or have a life/values calculation where money is way down the list.)

[Red Arrow]

I was department manager of local company for a while with a boss (President) who actually bragged to me how cheap he was able to get some engineers.  (You can imagine what I thought about that...)  Well, it didn't last long and EVERY penny he saved, plus about an extra 60% is what it cost him due to turnovers. 

Sounds like the system works.

[guido911]

Wisconsin redux in California?

http://www.eiaonline.com/CTAStateofEmergencyPlan.pdf



Would they just tax the rich more and move on already?

[Conan71]

The coming and going of companies is kind of strange in heat exchangers.  There are some that are rock solid, then others that are in and out before you can blink.

The shortage exists because of the lower wages.  I know a couple guys, one who went to Minnesota (of all places!) and one to Texas.  Both doing better in real terms than here.  Goes to the point of all the different people (family/friends) who have left this state for better opportunities elsewhere.  All do better in real terms than here taking into account ALL of the other factors that constitute cost of living.  One was working at local company in T and OKC, at least until they got bought out recently.  Still waiting to see how that goes.  He makes a weld bead in stainless tubing (oilfield coolers) that would make you cry for joy!

I was department manager of local company for a while with a boss (President) who actually bragged to me how cheap he was able to get some engineers.  (You can imagine what I thought about that...)  Well, it didn't last long and EVERY penny he saved, plus about an extra 60% is what it cost him due to turnovers.  

Good welders/fitters/fabricators who aren't locked down to Tulsa by family or some other very extreme circumstance are in Houston, Midland, Louisiana.  Or just somewhere else.  (NO, that doesn't mean we don't have good people - we have great people.  It means they are stuck here or have a life/values calculation where money is way down the list.)

Certainly wages are less in Tulsa than other areas.  Welders who want to be in Tulsa stay here and work here.  The companies here compete for the best welders and pay a very good wage for our cost and standard of living here.  They can also get lots of overtime and if they have their own equipment can moonlight and make good cash under the table.  Tulsa is a good place to live and work.

A really good welder can get damn near wealthy if they are willing to endure dangerous or inhospitable conditions.  Pipeline welders willing to work in the arctic or a war zone will make astounding money.  It's all in what someone is willing to endure.  Working in the humidity of the Gulf Coast or Midland, Tx as a welder and dealing with all the other issues of larger cities or smaller towns factors in to the higher wages paid in those areas.  The higher money paid oftentimes is in lieu of more ideal working conditions.  That can be said of many different trades.

[heironymouspasparagus]

There are always considerations.  Like working on the north slope - wow!  I would love that!  Two weeks on, two weeks off.  Incredible money, transportation home every two weeks.  And they can make change so you have a couple of $1 bills for the plane ride home!!  (Inside story - to see if anyone recognizes the reference.)  It just don't get any better than that!!

Houston, and up and down the coast is not at all bad for some people.  Makes me miserable, but have several friends who love the heat and the humidity!  One wears a light jacket ALL the time through the summer.  Go figure.  Heaven and a better paycheck than here, too!  He will never be back.  Our loss, Texas gain.

RA,
Yeah, for a while it worked.  Except he never learned anything from it and continues to this day.  If I were on the board, I would be asking why the overall cost of talent was so much more than those comparative compensation surveys show it should be.  And then I would fire his donkey!  But, hey, that's just me and my bad attitude!

[Teatownclown]

Hilarious. Funny how the tide turned and the Teabaggers are all washed up.

[Conan71]

Hilarious. Funny how the tide turned and the Teabaggers are all washed up.

Shot from the neanderthal pit, obviously.  I see Gov. Palin still has the liberal's panties in a twist.