Traffic Circle at 11th and Elgin

[Hoss]

I'm not saying that one is hard to use, just that designs have improved greatly and modern ones are better than that one.

I still fail to see how the design of the one at Admiral/Mingo can be improved upon given what it was built for (as traffic relief for workers to/from the airport).  It's incredibly simpllistic.  I look at some of the photos in this thread of other 'roundabouts' and see how people can get confused.

[Gonesouth1234]

How in the hell is the one at Admiral and Mingo not easy to navigate or understand?  Yield signs exist at ALL the entrances to the circle.  Markings on the road indicating if you're in the outside lane you do NOT enter the circle but turn right exist.  Yet over 50 percent of people I see traverse this thing do it wrong.  I know several people that avoid the area completely.  It's not difficult and this one, if navigated with COMMON SENSE is actually pretty easy to use.

The key word is COMMON SENSE.

I used to work in the area of the Traffic Circle, and came close to joining the ancestors a couple of times while trying to navigate through there.  Currently, trying to navigate it on a weekend day while the traffic is on the move to the flea market, is almost suicide.

Traffic count, the volume of traffic, should be a key factor in determining whether or not a roundabout should be constructed at an intersection like 10th and Elgin.

Obviously, at 71st and Memorial, the installation of a roundabout should not even enter the discussion, but an odd ball intersection with 3 or 5 intersecting streets should definitely be a candidate for one.  

The main reason that the Traffic Circle exists, if I remember correctly, was because when Cy Avery ran Route 66 through there, he just happened to have his gas station and car service area on the northwest corner.  I'm not sure where his hotel was located, but it was also in the immediate area.  

[Gonesouth1234]

The key word is COMMON SENSE.

I used to work in the area of the Traffic Circle, and came close to joining the ancestors a couple of times while trying to navigate through there.  Currently, trying to navigate it on a weekend day while the traffic is on the move to the flea market, is almost suicide.

Traffic count, the volume of traffic, should be a key factor in determining whether or not a roundabout should be constructed at an intersection like 10th and Elgin.  The one at 36th and Hudson is a perfect example of one that works, although I have had a couple near head on misses there over the years.

Obviously, at 71st and Memorial, the installation of a roundabout should not even enter the discussion, but an odd ball intersection with 3 or 5 intersecting streets should definitely be a candidate for one.  

The main reason that the Traffic Circle exists, if I remember correctly, was because when Cy Avery ran Route 66 through there, he just happened to have his gas station and car service area on the northwest corner.  I'm not sure where his hotel was located, but it was also in the immediate area.  

[dsjeffries]

Traffic count, the volume of traffic, should be a key factor in determining whether or not a roundabout should be constructed at an intersection like 10th and Elgin.

Obviously, at 71st and Memorial, the installation of a roundabout should not even enter the discussion, but an odd ball intersection with 3 or 5 intersecting streets should definitely be a candidate for one.

Roundabouts actually have a higher traffic volume capacity than regular intersections. If they were built along 71st Street, traffic could actually move more quickly than it does now. We'd see fewer delays because the traffic is continually moving.

I still fail to see how the design of the one at Admiral/Mingo can be improved upon given what it was built for (as traffic relief for workers to/from the airport).  It's incredibly simpllistic (sic).  I look at some of the photos in this thread of other 'roundabouts' and see how people can get confused.

It is simple, and more effective than traditional intersections, but modern roundabouts are even more effective. The only confusing roundabout I've seen is the 'Magic Roundabout' in Swindon, England, and only because they literally put five roundabouts together.

A couple of the key differences include entering traffic yielding to circulating traffic, smaller radii, curved approaches and shapes other than true circles being used. They're very different than the rotary at Admiral/Mingo.

[Gonesouth1234]

Roundabouts actually have a higher traffic volume capacity than regular intersections. If they were built along 71st Street, traffic could actually move more quickly than it does now. We'd see fewer delays because the traffic is continually moving.

It is simple, and more effective than traditional intersections, but modern roundabouts are even more effective. The only confusing roundabout I've seen is the 'Magic Roundabout' in Swindon, England, and only because they literally put five roundabouts together.

A couple of the key differences include entering traffic yielding to circulating traffic, smaller radii, curved approaches and shapes other than true circles being used. They're very different than the rotary at Admiral/Mingo.

I would be for anything that could actually improve the traffic flow in a high density area like 71st. 

If traffic lights in Tulsa were actually timed in such a way as to allow better traffic flow, the flow of traffic might not be such a headache.  There have been other threads here regarding  the flow or traffic on Memorial and 71st due to the timing of lights, or lack of it.

I wonder how a roundabout would fare at 71st and Garnett or 61st and Mingo?

[Conan71]

Roundabouts actually have a higher traffic volume capacity than regular intersections. If they were built along 71st Street, traffic could actually move more quickly than it does now. We'd see fewer delays because the traffic is continually moving.

Daniel, that makes the giant leap assumption that the average dumbass Tulsa driver can navigate one of these without causing an accident.  All one needs to know about what Tulsa drivers understand about orderly merging and traffic flow is to stand or sit in traffic on the BA eastbound going through downtown after 4:30 pm.

Might work great elsewhere but Tulsa drivers can screw up anything.

[dsjeffries]

Daniel, that makes the giant leap assumption that the average dumbass Tulsa driver can navigate one of these without causing an accident.  All one needs to know about what Tulsa drivers understand about orderly merging and traffic flow is to stand or sit in traffic on the BA eastbound going through downtown after 4:30 pm.

Might work great elsewhere but Tulsa drivers can screw up anything.

But don't you think there's a chance that Tulsa's system is designed wrong and trying something new like this might actually be the solution? Who knows, maybe stoplights are the reason Tulsa drivers are so bad!

[Conan71]

But don't you think there's a chance that Tulsa's system is designed wrong and trying something new like this might actually be the solution? Who knows, maybe stoplights are the reason Tulsa drivers are so bad!

No, their problem started in kindergarten when they couldn't form a line and they kept getting report cards which said: "Doesn't play well with others" It keeps getting progressively worse

[bacjz00]

Speaking of kindergartners and traffic circles...another FAIL

http://www.tulsaworld.com/site/articlepath.aspx?articleid=20110327_450_0_Adrive389825

[Red Arrow]

Speaking of kindergartners and traffic circles...another FAIL

http://www.tulsaworld.com/site/articlepath.aspx?articleid=20110327_450_0_Adrive389825

Yep, it rated more entries on http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=5124.msg168061#msg168061

[Townsend]

Day & Nite Rug Cleaners FB pic of the progressing circle.



From this building:

[DowntownDan]

I drove through the part of the circle that's open and holy cow, there are going to be tons of accidents there.  I know the statistics about traffic circles being safer than traffic lights, but I can say with about 99.9% certainty that some of the idiot drivers in this town will be unable to navigate the circle.  The one at fifth and main should be an indicator of that.  Some drunk was always plowing into the fountain and now it is blocked off with a wooden barrier because of peoples stupidity.  The traffic circle now goes very close to the old warehouse market building and the parking garage accross the street.  I'd bet money that within the first year some idiot will plow into it, or if barriers are installed, will plow the barriers.  I'd bet even more money that some idiot will drive right through the circle as though it isn't there.  At fifth and main there was a friggin large fountain right in front of you and arrows to let you know what was going on and still, time after time, some moron drove right into it.  Mark it down.  Lots of accidents.  You just can't teach some people new tricks when it comes to driving.

[sgrizzle]

I drove through the part of the circle that's open and holy cow, there are going to be tons of accidents there.  I know the statistics about traffic circles being safer than traffic lights, but I can say with about 99.9% certainty that some of the idiot drivers in this town will be unable to navigate the circle.  The one at fifth and main should be an indicator of that.  Some drunk was always plowing into the fountain and now it is blocked off with a wooden barrier because of peoples stupidity.  The traffic circle now goes very close to the old warehouse market building and the parking garage accross the street.  I'd bet money that within the first year some idiot will plow into it, or if barriers are installed, will plow the barriers.  I'd bet even more money that some idiot will drive right through the circle as though it isn't there.  At fifth and main there was a friggin large fountain right in front of you and arrows to let you know what was going on and still, time after time, some moron drove right into it.  Mark it down.  Lots of accidents.  You just can't teach some people new tricks when it comes to driving.

I know the 5th and main circle is being built so it can be driven over and the one at 11th is similar. The difference at 11th is that the street wasn't straight trough before. No matter which way you enter the intersection, you're headed at a building.

[DowntownDan]

I know the 5th and main circle is being built so it can be driven over and the one at 11th is similar. The difference at 11th is that the street wasn't straight trough before. No matter which way you enter the intersection, you're headed at a building.

So sad.  It's like we're having to baby proof our city for the idiot drivers that can't see a huge effing fountain sitting right there in front of them and can't manage the simple task of navigating a traffic circle.

[erfalf]

So sad.  It's like we're having to baby proof our city for the idiot drivers that can't see a huge effing fountain sitting right there in front of them and can't manage the simple task of navigating a traffic circle.

I think the Bartlesville roundabout planners were thinking the same thing. It is basically a large grass pad (with a curb) in the middle. Although, I think they have now added some shrubs and flower beds. But it is still nothing substantial like a monument or something.

I will say, that even though it was a giant mess trying to acquire land rights to do it. It has alleviated traffic immensely at that intersection. Prior to this it was small two lane roads in every direction with no turning lanes. The amount of times I was backed up 1/4 to 1/2 mile waiting for left turners was mind numbing. Now when I approach the intersection I am generally the next car to enter it. The roundabout seems to work pretty well here. There is not a huge amount of traffic, but there is enough.