Seriously????

[Hoss]

Yet, somehow you see no problem with placing "In God We Trust" over federal buildings, thus necessitating federal employees to enter on a daily basis buildings representing Christian religious beliefs.  How do you reconcile that?  (FYI, you really know very little about Judaism--for the majority, the above slogan is considered an offense to God.  Should they be able to refuse to enter, even if that is part of their job?). 

This is essentially why I've shut myself off from 'organized religion', which is an absolute oxymoron.  For some reason, Christians in this country (not all, but many more than in other nations) feel that their religion is superior to all others.  I stated in another post almost every relative I have is Christian.  There is nothing wrong with that.  Then, I have other relatives that try and shove that religion down my throat by 'ministering' to me.  I then tell them where to shove that ministering.  People in my family finally understand where I come from when it comes to religion, but it took nearly 15 years for them to get it.  I always hated people telling me I was going to Hell if I didn't accept Jesus into my life.  That's between he and I and no one else.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Guido,
The other religions don't try to shove it on to people, like the "prayer in schools group."  That is the difference.  Whereas the co-opted Southern Baptist Convention and the Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson and Sarah Palin group do advocate that.

I happen to like the motto and don't mind it being on money or buildings.  The problem with my personal likes and dislikes and beliefs is that there are others who also have rights to not have my feelings forced upon them.  As I refuse to have theirs forced upon me.  

I have friends who are Jewish, Muslim, a few Gays, and even one Hindu.  None, not even the Mormons I know have ever tried proselytizing to me.  On the other hand, even though many of the neo-con Christian friends and family know exactly my religious beliefs, I, like Hoss have been 'recruited' over and over.  So, not only do we NOT have to worry about other religions trying to force their beliefs on us, we don't even have to worry about gay people trying to convert us.

Again, that's the difference.

[Conan71]

Guido,
The other religions don't try to shove it on to people,

Naw, Muslims don't do that at all    Just not the ones you or I consort with. 

[heironymouspasparagus]

Not here they don't.  While some Christian groups have a thousand year history of going to new places and converting and killing the people who were there first.  Even today, they do the first part of that.  Less killing unless you believe that Bush, Rove, and Murdoch are Christian - then we are still going to other places and killing them.  (But NOT because of oil or Daddy's embarrassment!)

[Conan71]

Not here they don't.  While some Christian Muslim groups have a thousand year history of going to new places and converting and killing the people who were there first.  Even today, they do the first part of that. 

Easily interchangeable

[heironymouspasparagus]

Let's see now...
Can you spell "Crusades"?
Or Ireland?  (British invasion and occupation)
Or America - repeatedly - insert list of America indigenous tribes here.
Or China
Or Central America
Or most of Africa
Or India
Or Australia

Granted, it all started with the Romans, but the western Europeans learned well and quickly.

[custosnox]

Islam and Christianity have a lot of similarities, including a history of forcing people by penalty of death to convert.  This does not excuse an intolerance to one or the other from either. 

[guido911]

Since you decided to make a point on the fact of me not reading his complaint I went ahead and read it instead of going with the cliff notes version.  Still comes out pretty much the same.  Do you not understand that this is an attempt to help people understand a culture?  That this is them reaching out and saying "this is who I am", trying to break through the hate that is directed towards them without really understanding who they are?  As I stated before, I do not endorse the action of trying to force the officers to attend, but I do not see how his religious beleifs where in any way violated by this.  This was obviously meant to teach the officers more about the people they are sworn to protect and were not required to participate in any religious activities. 

Well that is probably going to be their defense if the Islamic Society get sued. What we have here is a governmental entity ordering a person to attend an event held at a religious institution. You can call it an attempt to educate, I'll call it something else. In any case, I do not want my government doing that, just as you may not want our government giving me vouchers/tax breaks so I can keep my kids out of our crappy public school system.

[ZYX]

Not here they don't.  While some Christian groups have a thousand year history of going to new places and converting and killing the people who were there first.  Even today, they do the first part of that.  Less killing unless you believe that Bush, Rove, and Murdoch are Christian - then we are still going to other places and killing them.  (But NOT because of oil or Daddy's embarrassment!)

Let's not bring history into this. Just because Christians have acted that way in the past, it does not mean that is how the MAJORITY act today! I'm so sick of every time something like this comes up the Crusades are mentioned. They were centuries ago. Move past it!

[custosnox]

Well that is probably going to be their defense if the Islamic Society get sued. What we have here is a governmental entity ordering a person to attend an event held at a religious institution. You can call it an attempt to educate, I'll call it something else. In any case, I do not want my government doing that, just as you may not want our government giving me vouchers/tax breaks so I can keep my kids out of our crappy public school system.

I personally don't want the government forcing anyone to attend any event that does not directly relate to the performance of their job.  While this could improve relations with the Islamic community and the Police, I really doubt it will for anyone attending by force.  Same as any similar situation.  I don't disagree that he was wronged in this situation, I just don't agree that it is a matter of violating his religious freedom.  If he was also required to participate in any of the religious parts of it, such as having to pray, then yes, I could see it as a such.  And for the record, if I could manage to get my kids in private school, regardless if it is done with vouchers or tax breaks, I would.  The only thing that bothers me about it is the lack of good, secular, private schools in the area.  HH is the closest that I've seen, but it's still there.  Giving vouchers and saying they can't be used at a private school because it's religous based is like saying you can't use food stamps to buy unlevened bread because it's a religous food, or that you can't shop at such and such store because it has church interests. 

[Red Arrow]

Well that is probably going to be their defense if the Islamic Society get sued. What we have here is a governmental entity ordering a person to attend an event held at a religious institution. You can call it an attempt to educate, I'll call it something else. In any case, I do not want my government doing that, just as you may not want our government giving me vouchers/tax breaks so I can keep my kids out of our crappy public school system.

My local voting place is usually in a church.  What if you don't want to go into a church.  Driving downtown to vote early may not be a option.

Also, I don't remember ever hearing if this event was on "company time" or the officers personal time.

[Red Arrow]

Let's not bring history into this. Just because Christians have acted that way in the past, it does not mean that is how the MAJORITY act today! I'm so sick of every time something like this comes up the Crusades are mentioned. They were centuries ago. Move past it!

That appears to be one of the problems.  Neither side is willing to either forget or even forgive.  From my perspective, the Muslims are more stubborn.

[Conan71]

Let's not bring history into this. Just because Christians have acted that way in the past, it does not mean that is how the MAJORITY act today! I'm so sick of every time something like this comes up the Crusades are mentioned. They were centuries ago. Move past it!

Or equating our current international voyeurism with the crusades, or war for oil, or simply deposing tin horn dictators with the crusades.

[guido911]

My local voting place is usually in a church.  What if you don't want to go into a church.  Driving downtown to vote early may not be a option.

And that there is a damned excellent point. The voting booth, where everyone is in fact equal, are located inside religious institutions. Where is all the "cramming religion down our throats" at on that one? NOWHERE. Because "In God We Trust" on federal buildings or on our money is far more oppressive than having Jesus in your grill when you vote.

[Red Arrow]

And that there is a damned excellent point. The voting booth, where everyone is in fact equal, are located inside religious institutions. Where is all the "cramming religion down our throats" at on that one? NOWHERE. Because "In God We Trust" on federal buildings or on our money is far more oppressive than having Jesus in your grill when you vote.

Works both ways.  Being invited to a Mosque for a non-religious event should be no different than voting in one.