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Gaspar
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« Reply #60 on: April 05, 2011, 07:13:17 pm » |
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I think the idea proposed where it would be not only a basic grocer, but also have prepared food and a chef, is a good idea. I don't think downtown can support a full grocery store right now, but if it doubles as a lunch spot for downtown workers, or a place to get a quick bite before a game or a show, I think it would make the operation profitable even if the grocer side gets less business. Maybe even have a small wine bar to cater to the night crowd. I think it is a good stopgap while downtown is growing its residential sector.
Retail food and retail non- alcoholic beverages sold alongside wine by the glass? Think about it. |
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When attacked by a mob of clowns, always go for the juggler.
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Cats Cats Cats
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« Reply #61 on: April 05, 2011, 07:20:55 pm » |
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Retail food and retail non- alcoholic beverages sold alongside wine by the glass? Think about it.
Yeah, it's going to be probably very small/no profit grocery store with profit from the added services. |
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Gaspar
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« Reply #62 on: April 05, 2011, 07:26:18 pm » |
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Yeah, it's going to be probably very small/no profit grocery store with profit from the added services.
LOL! |
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When attacked by a mob of clowns, always go for the juggler.
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JoeMommaBlake
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« Reply #63 on: April 05, 2011, 09:48:57 pm » |
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Look at this one. http://www.waltonsfancyandstaple.com/home.aspxThis is the closest thing I can find to it. Looks like a nice fit in downtown Tulsa. I wouldn't get too hung up on "grocery store." "Market" sounds better - basic staples, some pre-prepared dishes, fresh local produce, some specialty items, etc. This is not a place to go load up on groceries for two weeks. Urban markets are much different. Our suburban midwestern lifestyle has trained us to think that grocery stores are places where we need carts, bags, and a couple hundred dollars. Downtown residents will be glad to go pick up (or have them delivered) some pasta, eggs, milk, rotisserie chicken, bacon, toilet paper, and dog food. It will also be one of the only places downtown where you can make your own salad, eat without leaving a tip, and enjoy healthy, chef-prepared lunch in a food line. Quick and fresh lunch and dinner. Smoothies. Coffee. Mmmm. I haven't seen any numbers involving square footage and grocery margins. My instincts tell me that it'll be pretty well received and pretty profitable, even though it's not a Food Lion. |
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"Make no little plans. They have no magic to stir men's blood and probably will not themselves be realized." - Daniel Burnham http://www.joemommastulsa.com |
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Gaspar
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« Reply #64 on: April 06, 2011, 04:55:23 am » |
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I think it will be very well received, that's not the challenge. The challenge is developing and maintaining enough volume to pay overhead, and turn a profit. The most significant overhead for a grocery is the employees.
There are companies that overcome this very well in urban settings. In Chicago, St. Louis, and several other cities in the Midwest, ALDI stores thrive because they operate a low overhead operation with a small store, single employee, and off name goods.
The proposed model is the opposite, with higher overhead. If someone can provide a sqft size, and based on info in the article, it would not be that difficult to calculate $per sf necessary, and therefore volume necessary to turn a profit.
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When attacked by a mob of clowns, always go for the juggler.
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carltonplace
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« Reply #65 on: April 06, 2011, 06:06:12 am » |
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Trog, that is a tired old argument. So many people say that, and then turn around and say why would I ever live downtown if there's not a grocery store. It's a chicken and egg situation. When this grocery store gets built, you will probably see development immediately around it because people love convenience. It would be nice to have restaurants, a grocery store, and several other retail options all within walking distance. The more options for shopping and other services there are downtown the more people it will attract.
GreenArch is already going up just accross the street, and I heard something about a ball park. |
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Gonesouth1234
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« Reply #66 on: April 06, 2011, 06:43:18 am » |
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I think it will be very well received, that's not the challenge. The challenge is developing and maintaining enough volume to pay overhead, and turn a profit. The most significant overhead for a grocery is the employees.
There are companies that overcome this very well in urban settings. In Chicago, St. Louis, and several other cities in the Midwest, ALDI stores thrive because they operate a low overhead operation with a small store, single employee, and off name goods.
The proposed model is the opposite, with higher overhead. If someone can provide a sqft size, and based on info in the article, it would not be that difficult to calculate $per sf necessary, and therefore volume necessary to turn a profit.
The average profit margin on a grocery is about 2% or so, if I remember correctly. It would take a model like this, with varied services, deli, china, home goods, floral, plus grocery items to generate enough dollars in the downtown area right now, INHO. The basic question remains, there might be a need, but is there enough of a market base downtown for a small grocery operation in the current time? Personality of the owner, good service, etc. would have a lot to do with building a customer base, as it does in any small retail operation. Accessibility, convenient location-walkability, hours of operation. This is a little different perspective, but still similar:there are some c store owners in town that thought they had found Solomon's Mines when they bought their location, but instead bought themselves a job where they were making about $2.00 an hour. |
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OSU
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« Reply #67 on: April 06, 2011, 08:00:43 am » |
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If there is a grocery store downtown, I`ll shop there often even though I don`t live downtown... I`ll shop there for the same reason I eat in the Blue Dome and Brady and it`s the same reason I go to events like the NCAA and CUSA tournaments... I want to see downtown succeed and I will do most anything within my power to help that happen.
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Conan71
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« Reply #68 on: April 06, 2011, 08:11:35 am » |
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A small catering operation (think box lunches for the companies downtown) as well as grocery delivery and providing some unusual items you wouldn't readily find at Reasor's would go a long way in ensuring it's financial success. Quite obviously, the more people living within walking distance will help. More important is good accessibility and parking by car. We all have this utopian dream of a walkable downtown with 30,000 residents and mass transit convenience, but that's still a week or two off.  It wouldn't bother me to schlep a few days groceries, but I don't know of too many people willing to walk 6 to 12 blocks with a bag of groceries or 10 lb bag of dog food. |
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"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first” -Ronald Reagan
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DolfanBob
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« Reply #69 on: April 06, 2011, 08:30:09 am » |
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It wouldn't bother me to schlep a few days groceries, but I don't know of too many people willing to walk 6 to 12 blocks with a bag of groceries or 10 lb bag of dog food.
You right Conan. When you cant even park and get gas without having to fight off the people hounding you for money. Just think how it would be with a bag of groceries. |
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Changing opinions one mistake at a time.
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Cats Cats Cats
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« Reply #70 on: April 06, 2011, 08:34:14 am » |
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If there is a grocery store downtown, I`ll shop there often even though I don`t live downtown... I`ll shop there for the same reason I eat in the Blue Dome and Brady and it`s the same reason I go to events like the NCAA and CUSA tournaments... I want to see downtown succeed and I will do most anything within my power to help that happen.
Thats the spirit. How far do you live away from downtown? |
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Conan71
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« Reply #71 on: April 06, 2011, 08:43:48 am » |
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You right Conan. When you cant even park and get gas without having to fight off the people hounding you for money. Just think how it would be with a bag of groceries.
LOL, obviously you can't lie and say you've got nothing to help them with when you've got a bag full of groceries. I suppose you could carry a handful of dog biscuits in your pocket to feed the bums er chronically downtrodden with those. |
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"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first” -Ronald Reagan
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OSU
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« Reply #72 on: April 06, 2011, 09:00:27 am » |
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Thats the spirit.
How far do you live away from downtown?
I live near TU... I usually shop at the 15th and Lewis Reasor`s or Petty`s at Utica Square. I`ll pretty much drive past a Reasor`s to go downtown, but I think ventures like this are the only things that help make us unique. |
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DowntownDan
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« Reply #73 on: April 06, 2011, 09:09:29 am » |
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I live near Cherry Street and I work downtown. I would stop by on my way home from work for some prepared dinner or to pick up some staples even though I live very close to Reasors at 15th and Lewis.
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Cats Cats Cats
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« Reply #74 on: April 06, 2011, 09:13:37 am » |
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This is great. Its what we need to keep the place going strong until Downtown builds up more with apartments/condos. There is a lot of excitement over new places and then it dies down. After it opens I expect updates when you guys go so we can keep you honest and not going to the other Oklahoma owned grocery store.
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