BOK Center

[Conan71]

And that is the prize. The BOK wasn't really intended to make a profit. It was intended to enhance the quality of life for Tulsans and people from surrounding communities. And it's giving us huge recognition around the country. I have friends from Chicago and Indiana that were amazed by the BOK Center. And these people have friends and family that they tell this to also...

I firmly believe that if V25 had not been passed, Tulsa would be dying right now. We would be losing poulation, and people around the country would instead think of us as the next Detroit. I much prefer the attention from the BOK Center to that.

Aside from that, every community in Tulsa County got new facilities which have improved the streetscape and quality of life for their residents.  Every demographic is even well-served from what V-2025 has provided.

I truly was a skeptic of it and was against it, but seeing the difference in the area over the last 8 years, it's really amazing and more projects are still coming.  It's hard for me to fathom anyone thinking this has not been a worthy investment.  The Civic Center area would still look like post-modern Beirut without V-2025.

This is from another thread we had on the BOK last summer.  

"The ROI for community reinvestment isn't as subjective as it is in the business world where money is always the bottom line.  What's the price of pride in the community?  What's the price of being able to add to the quality of life by bringing Paul McCartney to town instead of 3000 or 4000 people going down the pike or to KC or Dallas to see him?  I realize that's one show, but it says something about Tulsa when we are worthy enough to bring in that sort of talent which instills some pride in all of us."

http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=15649.90

For those of you who weren't around when that thread was active, it's good reading and contains some great perspective from Blake Ewing (Joe Momma Blake).  It also appears to have been the swan song for a certain Tulsa blogger on this forum as he's not commented on a thread ever since.

[DTowner]

Yea, the annual "the BOK Center sucks because it's an investment no business would make" thread.

As noted in this thread and all the ones previous on this topic - the BOK Center was the Tulsa area showing a commitment to itself and the quality of life this area can offer.  It was also a public expenditure intended to attract and spur private investment in and to revitalize downtown.  On both fronts the BOK Center has been an unqualified success.  This is true even though the commercial development/lending markets have been in a major recession since the BOK opened.  The evidence of private investment in downtown Tulsa being made primarily as a result of or in response to the BOK Center (and ONG Field) are overwhelming and starting to gain real momentum.

The nay sayers had their say, lost the vote, lost the argument, and now have lost all credibility.  Give it up and move on to perpetuating the myth that the turnpikes are all supposed to be free roads by now or some other crazy notion.

[RecycleMichael]

I want to give the naysayers about the BokCenter a break.

This whole thing could have gone wrong. There are plenty of examples of arenas becoming black holes in downtowns that become magnets for crime on nights when not being used. The location was odd (near the jail and government buildings with no retail close by). The price tag was the biggest public funded single project in our city's history. And we knew that the economy was struggling.

There were plenty of reasons to be wary.

I think it was a gamble that worked. Kathy Taylor stepped in and privately raised millions of dollars to cover cost overruns. SMG brought in wonderful acts. Local entreprenuers found buildings to quickly remodel into restaurants. The economy in Tulsa wasn't as bad as other parts of the country.

I love the place. I have been to dozens of events. I am glad it worked out, but it could have gone the other way.

[Conan71]

I want to give the naysayers about the BokCenter a break.

This whole thing could have gone wrong. There are plenty of examples of arenas becoming black holes in downtowns that become magnets for crime on nights when not being used. The location was odd (near the jail and government buildings with no retail close by). The price tag was the biggest public funded single project in our city's history. And we knew that the economy was struggling.

There were plenty of reasons to be wary.

I think it was a gamble that worked. Kathy Taylor stepped in and privately raised millions of dollars to cover cost overruns. SMG brought in wonderful acts. Local entreprenuers found buildings to quickly remodel into restaurants. The economy in Tulsa wasn't as bad as other parts of the country.

I love the place. I have been to dozens of events. I am glad it worked out, but it could have gone the other way.

It could have, but it didn't.  So the naysayers, at least for now, need to kick another rock down the street.  I'm sure it's possible for it to fall on it's face in the future.  However, as long as it's one of the top grossing venues in North America, that becomes a dynamic momentum that's pretty hard to shut down.

[Breadburner]

Give me an example of an arena thats failed.....

[Red Arrow]

Give me an example of an arena thats failed.....

I believe the Pyramid in Memphis has failed but been replaced in another part of town closer to Beale St.

[dbacks fan]

Give me an example of an arena thats failed.....

It hasn't failed yet, but look at Jobing.com Arena and the Phoenix Coyotes.

http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/LaurieRoberts/121227

[RecycleMichael]

Stockton, California.  http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090731/A_NEWS0803/907310309/-1/A_NEWS08

Seattle, Washington  http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008112738_keyarena14m.html

Minneapolis, Minnesota  http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-92594769.html

Denver, Colorado  http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/2009/01/how_doomed_is_the_broomfield_e.php

[dbacks fan]

And to add insult to injury, Jobbing.com's neighbor, University of Phoenix stadium is in jepordy of losing the Fiesta Bowl.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2011/03/30/20110330fiesta-bowl-ncaa-license.html

[Conan71]

Stockton, California.  http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090731/A_NEWS0803/907310309/-1/A_NEWS08

Seattle, Washington  http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008112738_keyarena14m.html

Minneapolis, Minnesota  http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-92594769.html

Denver, Colorado  http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/2009/01/how_doomed_is_the_broomfield_e.php

Who goes to Stockton, Ca. anyhow?
Broomfield's center looks about like the S'pank in Bixby
Minneapolis is losing business to the arena in it's twin city
Seattle is just full of FAIL since they let the Sonics get away.

Understood, but those are all different scenarios than Tulsa. You don't want to give the doom and gloom lobby too much to hang onto anyhow 

[RecycleMichael]

Stockton has 300,000 residents. It ain't much smaller than Tulsa. 

[nathanm]

Stockton has 300,000 residents. It ain't much smaller than Tulsa. 

Yeah, but it's more like Bixby than Tulsa in everything but population.

[Breadburner]

Stockton, California.  http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090731/A_NEWS0803/907310309/-1/A_NEWS08

Seattle, Washington  http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008112738_keyarena14m.html

Minneapolis, Minnesota  http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-92594769.html

Denver, Colorado  http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/2009/01/how_doomed_is_the_broomfield_e.php

Poor examples at best.....None of those have failed.....And at least two are smallish event centers......Anything else.....

[dbacks fan]

Oracle Arena, Oakland CA, when the Golden State Warriors move.

http://bayareacomre.com/2010/03/29/rumor-golden-state-warriors-eyeing-a-move-to-san-francisco/

[Conan71]

Fortunately the Talons and Oilers are pretty stable franchises and don't need to sell 18,000 seats to make payroll.  Not sure how the WNBA is fairing, but if that franchise goes elsewhere, it shouldn't affect the BOK one iota.  Now if OKC were to lose the Thunder, it would really make a dent.  I do suspect we've gotten some shows simply because the Thunder were playing and bands could not book OKC as a logical stop on their tour.  However, the great sales numbers speak for themselves when it comes to promoters.