BOK Center

[heironymouspasparagus]

This is becoming slightly dated, but figured I would post it anyway.  The numbers are out now about the first year and a half for the BOK center.  (Tulsa World info)

Construction cost  $ 196 million

Total sales tax Revenue   $  6.945 million
To city    $ 2.444 million
To state $ 3.667 million
To county $ 833,000

Profit;
Income $ 21.184 million
Expense $ 16.619 million
Profit   $ 4,564 million

Total profit and tax to city;  $ 7.008 million

So, we are looking at about $ 2.8 million per year, which hopefully will grow over the next few years.  Lets give it $ 5 million per year expected annual average.

That means a payback of 70 years at current rate.  Or 39.2 years at double the current, hopefully growing rate.  Or a little over 19 years if the profit grows to $ 10 million per year.  (Can we reasonably expect $ 10 million a year for some period of time??)

What this is all leading up to is the question for the real business people out there.  If you were presented with this performance as a business plan, would you "do the deal"??  In particular, would a bank, like maybe BOK, do this deal?? 

[Teatownclown]

If you were presented with this performance as a business plan, would you "do the deal"?? NO  In particular, would a bank, like maybe BOK, do this deal??  NO

You watch, when Bolton bolts (another year and a half) the fat lady will be singing at the BOK.

BTW, can we see those deferred maintenance projections for ten years out?

[nathanm]

It seems someone either committed an error in arithmetic or provided incorrect information in their post.

Additionally, government is not a business. Measuring it by the standard of business is ridiculous.

[custosnox]

Where is the info on the tax revenue brought in from the increased business to the area?  Or does that not count because it would show too favoriably?

[dbacks fan]

I have heard from UofA fans from Arizona that were impressed by the BOk Center and Tulsa in general and this was from people from Tucson, and from Phoenix, as well as people that watched the games on TV, and they were impressed by Tulsa, and by the BOk center in general. This is a positive for Tulsa, and something that will draw for future events. Something that has drawn national attention, is the Chili Bowl Nationals, I have lost track of the people that have asked me about that event. Tulsa is starting to get recognition that it deserves and is making it's way. Living in AZ, and having people ask, "Where would you go, and what would you do?" in Tulsa is a huge plus.

[Hoss]

Almost every public arena project after three years loses money as a standalone facility.  The fact that the BOK has been turning a profit has been very good, especially in these economic lean times.

But the comments made here are correct.  Just because the building itself is making or not making a profit doesn't take away from the intangibles.  Sales tax revenue generated by people who otherwise would not have come into town because of the events this venue is now drawing as compared to pre August 2008 when large venues usually went down the pike.  Now it's the OKC residents who are complaining about us getting acts like Rush, Foo Fighters and more.

Plus, with a metro/expanded metro area approaching 1 million people, the old dilapidated Convention Center needed replacing/augmenting.  It's actually turned out great for the smaller shows.  Save the marquee acts for the marquee facility.

[Conan71]

I have heard from UofA fans from Arizona that were impressed by the BOk Center and Tulsa in general and this was from people from Tucson, and from Phoenix, as well as people that watched the games on TV, and they were impressed by Tulsa, and by the BOk center in general. This is a positive for Tulsa, and something that will draw for future events. Something that has drawn national attention, is the Chili Bowl Nationals, I have lost track of the people that have asked me about that event. Tulsa is starting to get recognition that it deserves and is making it's way. Living in AZ, and having people ask, "Where would you go, and what would you do?" in Tulsa is a huge plus.

A lot of people from Arizona and California dump a ton of sales tax money here every January for the Chili Bowl.

Speaking to the O/T, it's not a matter of profit, it's a matter of value.  BOK Center doesn't have to make a profit, it simply needs to pay it's own way.  No one expects a park and rec center, public school, university, or museum to make a profit, yet they like it because it adds to the livability factor of a city.  

How much more attractive is Tulsa with a great concert and sports venue than what we had to offer in 2007?  It's brought a positive image to Tulsa with the shows we've booked and the sporting events now televised nationwide.

Without BOK Center would we have gotten the following: Sir Paul, Sir Elton (x2), The Eagles (x2), The Boss, Dave Matthews, Erck Clapner (Slowhand), and countless others?  Not even possible.  The center has also acted as a catalyst for private investment downtown.  I suppose it's entirely possible that the current and future success the Blue Dome and Brady (Franklin to TTC) District are enjoying could have happened without the BOK and OneOk Field, but statistically, downtown areas do much better with major attractions.  It helps create a synergy.  Essentially it's been a factor in anchoring redevelopment of downtown.

Granted, Tulsa doesn't have a great track record on maintaining our assets.  I can agree with TTC on that count.  Let's hope they are keeping up with this building and not siphoning off funds from the profits to fund the Mayor's cronies executive branch of our city government.  I disagree that Bolton is the sole reason for our successful bookings.  SMG is a whole lot bigger than Bolton.  If something happens to him, BOK will soldier on, as will the BOK.

I wasn't a fan of the BOK nor V-2025 and voted against it.  I gladly admit I was wrong.  Let's just hope we don't fall prey to "needed upgrades" in 10 years.  I was watching a story on Ch. 9 in OKC the other night that the director of the OKC convention bureau is screaming because their new convention center won't even be on the table until 2018, which is supposedly costing them convention business because the Ford and Cox centers apparently aren't what event planners are looking for??  WTH?

And after that screed if you are still hung up on the economics, consider that the dirt that building sets on won't lose value with other planned improvements in the area. 

[TURobY]

This stupid question comes up nearly every year. And the answer never changes.

Regardless of the economics, the voters agreed to the tax to build it. The arena was a VERY well-known component of V-2025; there was some utility function that made the economics of the arena valuable enough for voters to approve it.

Simply put: If you didn't want it, then you should've voted against it and garnered more support for your cause SEVERAL years ago. You didn't.

[dbacks fan]

Just want to say, that people I know that came to Tulsa for the UofA games, enjoyed their stay in Tulsa and Oklahoma, and would return.

[ZYX]

Just want to say, that people I know that came to Tulsa for the UofA games, enjoyed their stay in Tulsa and Oklahoma, and would return.

And that is the prize. The BOK wasn't really intended to make a profit. It was intended to enhance the quality of life for Tulsans and people from surrounding communities. And it's giving us huge recognition around the country. I have friends from Chicago and Indiana that were amazed by the BOK Center. And these people have friends and family that they tell this to also...

I firmly believe that if V25 had not been passed, Tulsa would be dying right now. We would be losing poulation, and people around the country would instead think of us as the next Detroit. I much prefer the attention from the BOK Center to that.

[sgrizzle]

What this is all leading up to is the question for the real business people out there.  If you were presented with this performance as a business plan, would you "do the deal"??  In particular, would a bank, like maybe BOK, do this deal?? 

CoT crews will be arriving at your house shortly to remove the road in front of your house. It hasn't made the return on investment they expected.

[we vs us]

Definitely an unqualified success.  Conan said it perfectly:  with a marquee facility like that, it's not the cost but the value, and the value to date of the BOK has been exceptional.  It's a jewel in Tulsa's cap, without a doubt.  

[Red Arrow]

CoT crews will be arriving at your house shortly to remove the road in front of your house. It hasn't made the return on investment they expected.

Turn it over to the Oklahoma Turnpike Authority.

[cannon_fodder]

Everyone agrees the numbers are above what we expected.  No matter what they reflected you would have posted this.  You can post the same on nealry every publicly owned venue.

Also, according to the numbers you posted the venue is paying for itself AND dumping millions into the city/county in direct tax payments.  So isn't that free infrastructure that also generates revenue?  Unless I'm missing something because you failed to account for the bonds, it looks like we got a great deal.

[Cats Cats Cats]

You are right.  We should tear it down and make a parking lot now.