BOK Center

[swake]

.  I do suspect we've gotten some shows simply because the Thunder were playing and bands could not book OKC as a logical stop on their tour.  However, the great sales numbers speak for themselves when it comes to promoters.

I keep hearing that argument and I don't buy it. First OKC only has the Thunder that play in The (Formerly known as)Ford Center. Their arena football team went kaput and their hockey team plays next door. The Thunder have 41 homes games and that's it for dates filled by sports. The BOK Center has the Talons with 9 games, the Oilers with 32 and the Shock with 17. The BOK has 58 dates filled by sports teams to Oklahoma City's 41.

[Conan71]

I keep hearing that argument and I don't buy it. First OKC only has the Thunder that play in The (Formerly known as)Ford Center. Their arena football team went kaput and their hockey team plays next door. The Thunder have 41 homes games and that's it for dates filled by sports. The BOK Center has the Talons with 9 games, the Oilers with 32 and the Shock with 17. The BOK has 58 dates filled by sports teams to Oklahoma City's 41.

As I said, "some" shows.  Leaves me a big enough out 

[Cats Cats Cats]

I keep hearing that argument and I don't buy it. First OKC only has the Thunder that play in The (Formerly known as)Ford Center. Their arena football team went kaput and their hockey team plays next door. The Thunder have 41 homes games and that's it for dates filled by sports. The BOK Center has the Talons with 9 games, the Oilers with 32 and the Shock with 17. The BOK has 58 dates filled by sports teams to Oklahoma City's 41.

Those number speak for themselves.  There is almost no way that we would get more of a benefit from them than they would out of us.  Unless somehow all their events magically coincide with the tours.  Which I doubt.

[Conan71]

In case anyone was wondering, Michael Bates still thinks the arena wasn't worth the investment:

"While we can be proud that visitors came to Tulsa and had a good time, we do need a clear-eyed look at the financial benefit of such an event to Tulsans in comparison to what it cost us to bring it to town -- $178 million for the venue alone, not including debt service on the bonds that built it.

Even if you believe the estimate of $15 million in "economic impact" and assume that it's all taxable and that it all represents money that wouldn't otherwise be spent here, that amounts to $602,500 in city and county sales taxes. It would take the equivalent of 295 NCAA men's basketball opening rounds to give as much local revenue back for the benefit of Tulsa County residents -- in the form of street improvements, police protection, park maintenance, etc. -- as they paid to build the arena. Our next opportunity at an NCAA opening round is in 2014."


http://www.batesline.com/

Might be a relevant argument if the BOK Center were built soley for the purpose of this NCAA tournament.  I guess he's still hung up on the cost rather than the value.  Can anyone on here say they like the way downtown looked in 2003 better than it looks now?

[ZYX]

Downtown sucked in 2003. The only attraction it had was the penguins. And I dont really call that an attraction. If Vision 25 had never been passed then I probably couldn't give you a vague idea of what it looked like. That's how little I would be down there. But it did pass, and my family goes downtown quite often. Just this year I have been to two events at the BOK Center, one at the Cain's, went to the Christmas Parade, the MLK parade, and have competed in two runs (Tulsa & Bedlam). If downtown was still what it was like in 2003, then you could probably wipe all those off the board, except maybe the parade. We go downtown because it is nice and it's a fun change from Bixby. After college I would love to move downtown. I know that I would not be saying this if V25 had not kick started development. Hopefully by the time I'm living in downtown there will only be a few empty lots left, now that would be awesome.

[Conan71]

And I believe Bixby got some nice projects out of the program as well.

[ZYX]

Yep, we did

[Teatownclown]

I don't enjoy having to agree with Mista Bates....

[ZYX]

I don't enjoy having to agree with Mista Bates....

Explain your reasoning behind agreeing with him. After seeing everything that the BOK Center has done I don't see how you could...

[Teatownclown]

Explain your reasoning behind agreeing with him. After seeing everything that the BOK Center has done I don't see how you could...

Best thing that happened for BOK was the Thunder....I am one of few Tulsan's who love the Thunder!

[ZYX]

NO you're not. I don't know anybody who likes basketball who doesn't love the Thunder.

You still didn't answer my question.

[Teatownclown]

Now now....do not bate me.

[bmuscotty]

Fortunately the Talons and Oilers are pretty stable franchises and don't need to sell 18,000 seats to make payroll.

IMO I don't think the Talons will be playing here next year.

[godboko71]

IMO I don't think the Talons will be playing here next year.

That would be sad considering the league is based out of Tulsa or are they moving the headquarters too?

[YoungTulsan]

The arena is infrastructure.  Maybe a little frivolous, but arenas funded by tax dollars are standard in markets our size, and not having one would put us behind.  Halting its construction would both not help us locally, and make no difference in the national norm.

So unless you feel like convincing the top 50 or 100 markets to stop subsidizing the entertainment industry along with us, we can only lose.   Hence, this is now considered infrastructure.

Saying that it doesn't turn a profit is like saying roads don't turn profits.  But without road infrastructure in the first place, so much economic activity would never take place at all.   Without a modern facility, there is a whole sector of the entertainment industry that would simply not come to Tulsa.

If we kept doing nothing for downtown in 2003 and continued on that path, people would be complaining that this place is about as depressing as Chernobyl.  How many folks wouldn't live here anymore?   Not that big of a difference?  A few people abandoning the economy has residual effects, and grows exponentially as their descendants have descendants, and so on.

Going the arena route is what started the momentum, and the fact that we went the extra mile to build a quality one likely has something to do with its success.  So the question is, how else could we have sparked up momentum in downtown?  What other methods are currently working in other markets to revitalize their urban cores other than the entertainment industry?  Perhaps a technology center?  A civic center?  Jails? Maybe we could focus on more "retro" industries to impress the youngsters.  Textiles could make a huge comeback.   Or perhaps haberdasheries could spring up big.  I have a sword I need forging and there seems to be a lack of good swordsmiths in the immediate vicinity.