Grow Up Tulsa (Blake Ewing)

[ZYX]

Still can't understand why we feel so compelled to compare ourselves to Oklahoma City so much.  I have spent way too much time there and it just ain't all that much.  Tulsa has so many things more going for it (even BEFORE the Crashship!), and we just can't seem to appreciate what we have. 

Exactly. So many Tulsans constantly say "Why can't we be like OKC?" and all that crap. OKC has two things that we don't have. Devon Tower, Thunder. Aside from that Tulsa has almost everything that they have. I've heard of many OKCites that are jealous of Tulsa's Brookside, Cherry Street, Brady District, and Blue Dome District. The closest thing OKC has to any of those is probably the Plaza district, Deep Deuce, and maybe Bricktown. And really, a lot of people from OKC only consider Bricktown to be for young families and tourists. I don't consider Tulsa to be trailing OKC. We are simply developingin a different way. So let's stop comparing ourselves to OKC. Let them do their thing, and we'll do our thing. I really don't see the need to have two exactly the same cities in Oklahoma.

[JoeMommaBlake]

Exactly. So many Tulsans constantly say "Why can't we be like OKC?" and all that crap. OKC has two things that we don't have. Devon Tower, Thunder. Aside from that Tulsa has almost everything that they have. I've heard of many OKCites that are jealous of Tulsa's Brookside, Cherry Street, Brady District, and Blue Dome District. The closest thing OKC has to any of those is probably the Plaza district, Deep Deuce, and maybe Bricktown. And really, a lot of people from OKC only consider Bricktown to be for young families and tourists. I don't consider Tulsa to be trailing OKC. We are simply developingin a different way. So let's stop comparing ourselves to OKC. Let them do their thing, and we'll do our thing. I really don't see the need to have two exactly the same cities in Oklahoma.

Just a few more things OKC has that we don't:

1. A competent and focused city government
2. A citizenry that actually votes for civic improvements
3. A "big picture" mentality that has them believing they belong in a different conversation
4. A much smaller chip on their shoulder
5. A public that doesn't feel like they're blaspheming their city if they ask it to achieve its potential or compare it to another city.

I've never asked that Tulsa be exactly like OKC. In fact, I'm on record as saying we should be much different. There is one way I'd love for us to be like them. I wish we had their elected officials, their belief that they can be something special, and their proud and cohesive voters.

I'll take exception with anybody who says "let them do our thing, and we'll do our thing." While they were doing their thing: developing downtown, passing bond issues, attracting NBA teams, etc., we were doing our thing: voting down a river initiative and passing a streets bill. . . while our council and mayor continue fighting with each other.

Some of you guys act like any time someone references Oklahoma City, we're admitting our inferiority. It's simply not true, at least in my case. They're not the better city, but they will be if they stay on their path and we on ours...We can't keep doing this "everything is better in Tulsa" thing. It's not. Our leadership and vision is not better.

I wasn't comparing cities as cities. I was comparing our citizens and leadership. Theirs are positive, focused, proud, and motivated. Who cares about comparing amenities and shopping districts? I wasn't doing that and I resent it that you insinuate otherwise. You guys have got to get over this competition thing. Comparison is not bad. It's not an admission of inferiority. It's a means by which we determine where we are in the national landscape. What are other places doing? What are we doing? What are we not doing? Find me the business that isn't looking at what other businesses are doing and I'll show you a failing business. It's how we grow. I look at every detail of every restaurant I enter. It's not about comparing for the sake of comparing. It's about learning and growing and I learn more from the things they do better than I ever will from the things they don't.

My post was simply suggesting that we look at the cities that have great things going on (the grown up cities) and work to implement the things that accommodate their progress.

We can do better. You guys are acting like the parents of the "C" student who don't want the teacher to use red ink while grading papers. You can love your "C" student. Just don't pretend that student is perfect. It hurts you both. Red ink serves a valuable purpose sometimes....and often times hurt feelings lead to improvement.

We can do better. There's nothing wrong with saying it. More of us need to start saying it. More of us need to start believing it. Say it out loud, ZYX...."We can do better." We deserve better than our leadership is giving us and it's time to start expecting something much different than we're getting.

Love,
Blake

[ZYX]

 Blake,

I'm sorry if you thought my post was intended to be a comment on your writing. It was really meant to be a reply to TTC's post. I actually thouroughly enjoyed your writing, and agreed with nearly every point you brought up. I feel bad now because I was really not trying to put down your writing or be rude. I'm just tired of some people (not you) constantly saying or implying that we are inferior and always will be inferior to OKC. I agree that we have a terrible city government. I get insanely frustrated with them because nothing gets done in this city because all we ever hear about is more fighting at City Hall.  I also agree with you on the whole "chip on your shoulder" thing. Many Tulsans cannot hear one word of criticism of them or their city. I don't mind hearing criticism, but I do dislike always being considered OKC's little brother. There are so many
things that they have done right, and so many things that we have done wrong. But I think one amazing thing about Tulsa, that OKC cannot currently claim, is that we have fought through bad government, and an unsupportive populace. People like you have allowed this city to prosper during a time that it seemed almost impossible. Without brave entrepeneurers, this city would be on her death bed right now.

Once again, I apologize that my post was misconstrewed(sp) as being derogative to your writing. I can only imagine how much time that took you to put together. Thanks for all you have done for Tulsa, and I will say it with you..."We can do better."

[ZYX]

I would like to add that just because I don't like to constantly hear Tulsa put below OKC, I am not one that has been tricked I to believing that we are better. We're not. But I really don't think that OKC offers much as a city that Tulsa doesn't. 

[Hoss]

This is why we need to change our form of government.  I've always hated the strong-mayor government.  Makes infighting with the legislative body and the executive body inevitable.  It works at the federal level because there are three branches with checks and balances.  The judicial at a municipal level doesn't carry the same weight that it does at the federal level.

Change government types, then kick the asshats out!

[SXSW]

One thing Tulsa has always had going for it is its arts and music scene.  That is why losing events like the Overground Film Festival and DFest has been hard to watch because those were celebrations of the arts scene here.  Both were on their way to being much larger and influential especially DFest.  It pains me to see OKC now with an even better PAC (Civic Center Music Hall renovated by MAPS) and a superior film festival (DEADCenter).  Norman also has a music fest that is getting bigger and better every year.  Tulsa still has great festivals like Mayfest and Oktoberfest but I really wish we still had Overground and DFest. 

Tulsa will not have the NBA (or other pro teams) anytime soon and we don't have OU in our backyard like OKC.  We have TU and our arts and music scene, including nationally famous museums and concert venues.  That is one of our most unique attributes and what we need to build on.  That and our Art Deco and Route 66 heritage, along with natural assets like the river and its miles of trails and our parks. 

One of our key challenges besides unifying city government is to build a 4 year public university downtown.  That and continued growth at TU are very important for Tulsa to attract good jobs and educated people.  Our peer cities that are performing the best all have a top university, public or private, that provides a major impetus for growth.

[Gonesouth1234]

Just a few more things OKC has that we don't:

1. A competent and focused city government
2. A citizenry that actually votes for civic improvements
3. A "big picture" mentality that has them believing they belong in a different conversation
4. A much smaller chip on their shoulder
5. A public that doesn't feel like they're blaspheming their city if they ask it to achieve its potential or compare it to another city.

I've never asked that Tulsa be exactly like OKC. In fact, I'm on record as saying we should be much different. There is one way I'd love for us to be like them. I wish we had their elected officials, their belief that they can be something special, and their proud and cohesive voters.

I'll take exception with anybody who says "let them do our thing, and we'll do our thing." While they were doing their thing: developing downtown, passing bond issues, attracting NBA teams, etc., we were doing our thing: voting down a river initiative and passing a streets bill. . . while our council and mayor continue fighting with each other.

Some of you guys act like any time someone references Oklahoma City, we're admitting our inferiority. It's simply not true, at least in my case. They're not the better city, but they will be if they stay on their path and we on ours...We can't keep doing this "everything is better in Tulsa" thing. It's not. Our leadership and vision is not better.

I wasn't comparing cities as cities. I was comparing our citizens and leadership. Theirs are positive, focused, proud, and motivated. Who cares about comparing amenities and shopping districts? I wasn't doing that and I resent it that you insinuate otherwise. You guys have got to get over this competition thing. Comparison is not bad. It's not an admission of inferiority. It's a means by which we determine where we are in the national landscape. What are other places doing? What are we doing? What are we not doing? Find me the business that isn't looking at what other businesses are doing and I'll show you a failing business. It's how we grow. I look at every detail of every restaurant I enter. It's not about comparing for the sake of comparing. It's about learning and growing and I learn more from the things they do better than I ever will from the things they don't.

My post was simply suggesting that we look at the cities that have great things going on (the grown up cities) and work to implement the things that accommodate their progress.

We can do better. You guys are acting like the parents of the "C" student who don't want the teacher to use red ink while grading papers. You can love your "C" student. Just don't pretend that student is perfect. It hurts you both. Red ink serves a valuable purpose sometimes....and often times hurt feelings lead to improvement.

We can do better. There's nothing wrong with saying it. More of us need to start saying it. More of us need to start believing it. Say it out loud, ZYX...."We can do better." We deserve better than our leadership is giving us and it's time to start expecting something much different than we're getting.

Love,
Blake

+1 Blake.

Can someone email our city leadership with a copy of this?

Have to use email since Dewey doesn't carry a cell anymore due to the burning odor.

[TheArtist]

  I was looking at one of those "best places to live" rankings and was actually surprised to find that per our populationwe actually have fewer museums than those "best places".  Perhaps its another of those stories we have told ourselves for so long, "we have great arts this and that" but haven't kept improving, and have instead stagnated while others have kept on pushing and have passed us by.  I think we will be making progress when and if the Cains Museum, Oklahoma Pop, and the downtown Philbrook expansion in the Matthews building gets going.  Plus I of course hope to have an Art Deco museum in the mix.  Which brings up one of my beefs which is that we don't loudly promote our architectural heritage.  We need to "tourist up" our art deco heritage, build on it, and create a unique and fun destination.  One of our ultimate goals would be to create a National Art Deco Museum here in Tulsa with all of the states contributing an exhibit.  Its a brass ring we should snag before someone else does.  

[Conan71]

I'll take exception with anybody who says "let them do our thing, and we'll do our thing." While they were doing their thing: developing downtown, passing bond issues, attracting NBA teams, etc., we were doing our thing: voting down a river initiative and passing a streets bill. . . while our council and mayor continue fighting with each other.

You really do have a good take on the issues and I agree with your entire post with the exception of one point.  The citizens didn't fail on the River Tax, the City Of Tulsa's leadership failed.

Here's the mistakes:

1) There was never a reason for the county to lead on that project other than the mistaken notion that people in Collinsville, Owasso, Broken Arrow, Bixby, Sperry, etc. would vote for such a Tulsa-centric project because they helped pass Vision 2025.  Tulsa got the lions share of that project however each community and each demographic has benefitted from V-2025 funds.  Everyone in the county got something out of it.

2) I've never been clear if Mr. Kaiser approached the county with his gift or they approached him.  At any rate, it was a huge mistake letting Randi Miller take the lead on it.  She was already embroiled in controversy over the handling of Bell's lease and many of us more cynical types assumed she was little more than a puppet for former commissioner Bob Dick, whom many thought was incredibly corrupt.

3) In the haste to get a tax grab from the voters, they put together an incredibly sloppy plan without even knowing if the USACE could permit parts of the plan on the waterway itself as crucial studies would not be completed until AFTER we voted for this package.

4) The marketing on this sucked.  Many people when polled still thought this was The Channels project which had been proposed the year before.  As well, many potential yes votes were put off by ads featuring children who were pleading as if there was no future for them if we didn't approve this tax package.

5) There was little accountability built into the proposal to ensure we would get any or even most of what was promised in the package.

6) There were certain individuals who would profit handsomely from the deal without regard for how much taxpayers were being put on the hook for it.  Namely the concrete plant property.  If IIRC, the city or county would pay $50 million for the concrete plant and turn it over to a developer for around $5mm.  I believe that patch of land is around 5 acres.  I'm sorry, but I don't think even property on Rodeo Blvd. or Vail Village sells for $10mm an acre.  That was ludicrus.

7) There was property to the south of the 21st St. bridge which the city promised it would jettison if we approved the OneTech purchase along with some other city properties.  As predicted, that M & E center is still there and to my knowledge not one job transferred from that facility to OneTech.  The proposed move of the maintenance operations to the old Downtown Airpark was scrubbed when that was sold to the Osage Tribe for little or nothing.

The proposal came about four years after V-2025.  The arena was not finished yet, we'd not gotten promised improvements on Zink Lake at that point.  Basically no one was appreciating great results out of V-2025 at that point.
Our streets were in deplorable condition.  It was obvious we weren't taking care of basic in frastructure needs prior to
asking for more funds for infrastructure wants.

9) Along those lines, OKC has had clear projects in mind with MAPS and it's been done in stages, each new stage coming up as a former one comes to completion if I understand correctly.  OKC's sales tax rate, even with MAPS, I believe is about the same as Tulsa's if not slightly less.  It may have been a really poor calculation to have assigned the river program as a sales tax rather than as bonds or a property tax.  There again, I don't pretend to be an expert on powers the county has to raise revenue.

While I definitely appreciate the gesture Mr. Kaiser made, many really felt the conditional nature of it was a ransom.  As well, many people who use River Parks for recreation and exercise appreciate the open green spaces without a bunch of commercial clutter. 

People kept talking about the canals in OKC and San Antonio as models for what Tulsa's river development should look like.  There's simply no comparison.  The Arkansas river is about 1/4 mile wide at Zink Lake.  It's not even the same scale.  A far better use of development funds would be opening Elm Creek near the Pearl or on the south end of downtown if people want a walkable commercial area with a water feature.

The voters didn't fail on this one.  The city failed by not taking the lead on the issue, had they done that, IIRC the vote would have passed. As well the city and county both have a history of not delivering on promises to voters as well as mismanaging the funds they do have.

I always look forward to reading your posts and wish you had more time to contribute here.  As one of the leading figures of downtown redevelopment it's always great to hear your viewpoint.

[we vs us]

Many of the same roadblocks seemed to be in place when Taylor -- an unabashedly pro- and smart-development mayor -- was in office.  She got some amazing things done but also racked up some notable failures.  I don't fault her for the failures, but think that how the failures went down point to the larger problem, which Blake also alludes to but doesn't quite address, and that is:  a sizable portion of Tulsa residents themselves are against smart development.  They don't believe in downtown, they don't believe in big ticket projects, they don't believe in dense or multi-layered zoning, don't believe in life outside the Big Box, and don't believe in tax dollars being sunk into any of these.

These people exist in every city in the country to one degree or another but here the balance of power is tipped in their direction. We can locate the blame in city government -- and it absolutely IS atrocious right now -- but my point is that even when the stars aligned behind Taylor, the amount of pushback from the folks who DON'T. WANT. CHANGE. was almost enough to derail many of the deals (and in some cases did).  

I absolutely believe that we always end up with the government we want.  Maybe not WHEN we want it, but we get it in the end.  I think this government reflects a lot of what some Tulsans want with regards to development -- and that includes the gridlock (seen in some quarters as a feature not a bug).

We can talk about improving the functioning of our gov -- and I agree with everyone so far, and especially Blake that we need some vision at the top -- but I also think that we haven't won over our fellow Tulsans yet, and that's ultimately where the strength to continue will come from.

[Conan71]

Many of the same roadblocks seemed to be in place when Taylor -- an unabashedly pro- and smart-development mayor -- was in office.  She got some amazing things done but also racked up some notable failures.  I don't fault her for the failures, but think that how the failures went down point to the larger problem, which Blake also alludes to but doesn't quite address, and that is:  a sizable portion of Tulsa residents themselves are against smart development.  They don't believe in downtown, they don't believe in big ticket projects, they don't believe in dense or multi-layered zoning, don't believe in life outside the Big Box, and don't believe in tax dollars being sunk into any of these.

These people exist in every city in the country to one degree or another but here the balance of power is tipped in their direction. We can locate the blame in city government -- and it absolutely IS atrocious right now -- but my point is that even when the stars aligned behind Taylor, the amount of pushback from the folks who DON'T. WANT. CHANGE. was almost enough to derail many of the deals (and in some cases did).  

I absolutely believe that we always end up with the government we want.  Maybe not WHEN we want it, but we get it in the end.  I think this government reflects a lot of what some Tulsans want with regards to development -- and that includes the gridlock (seen in some quarters as a feature not a bug).

We can talk about improving the functioning of our gov -- and I agree with everyone so far, and especially Blake that we need some vision at the top -- but I also think that we haven't won over our fellow Tulsans yet, and that's ultimately where the strength to continue will come from.

People saw what downtown was the last 30 years and the pathetic piecemeal efforts from entities like DTU which did absolutely nothing other than some lame events.  They almost were like paying homage to "Uncle Carlo" if you catch the drift.  The ROI to those who remained downtown was pathetic.  Anyhow I digress.

Fast forward to 2011 and critical mass has finally arrived.  It took visionaries with their own money to make it happen, but I think more and more people are caring about downtown every day because they can see the effort is paying off in spades.  We've got a downtown to be proud of again and the cities investment is being returned with people like Blake & Elliot, the Fat Guys people, the major developers who are putting more guest rooms down there, etc.

Dense infill is one trend which is incredibly slow to adapt since Tulsa has been about sprawl for the last 50-60 years (or perhaps since it's birth as a city).  That's a hard mind-set to reverse.  People choose to live out here instead of a place like NYC because they enjoy having their own space and a plot of land.  They don't literally live on top of or below their neighbor.

I think the paradigm about downtown is changing more than you realize.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Blake said a lot of good stuff.  I'm keeping your blog as a reference point into the future.

Couple comments about your comments about OKC.
1.  Competent government.
My exposure is probably tainted by too short a time frame.  I don't see it as any better than Tulsa's over the LONG run.  (Current mayor excluded.)  Most of the people I know and have several days per week contact with are not that enamored with the city.  Granted, the people I know and have contact with are NOT the "movers and shakers" in OKC, but are blue collar types just trying to get by on a "wages for pay" job.

2. A citizenry that actually votes for civic improvements. 
Split almost down the middle like pretty much the rest of the country.  No huge majority of forward looking ready to spend people there any more than most.  54% for MAPS.

3. A "big picture" mentality that has them believing they belong in a different conversation
See number 1.

4. A much smaller chip on their shoulder
Quite likely the biggest thing in their favor.  Seems to go to the point in number 1 about too busy working to make ends meet to bother with extraneous effort.

5. A public that doesn't feel like they're blaspheming their city if they ask it to achieve its potential or compare it to another city.
??  Not sure exactly what that means.  Never felt like blaspheming Tulsa just because I want it to pull its head out and get better.


Passing a river initiative isn't an end unto itself.  We have a great river laboratory in place right now that is about what...1/2 empty?  And OKC river area is still plugging along, but every time I go there, it changes.  Right now, there seem to be some new places, but there is still a lot of empty places that were full 5 years ago.  It shifts from time to time and the overall view right now is that it is overbuilt by about twice.  Over time, that should change, I would hope, but for the last 5 to 10 years it is a mixed bag.

I admit NO inferiority to OKC.  I believe their original river plan was motivated at least in part by their internal perception of "inferiority" to Tulsa.  They are making great strides in getting over that.  There is a better attitude overall than 25 years ago.  After all, they rebuilt the Skirvin!!  (Beautiful old downtown building!)  How are we doing with the Mayo??
Will give the leadership point.  We don't have much. 


I wasn't comparing cities as cities. I was comparing our citizens and leadership. Theirs are positive, focused, proud, and motivated.

Ours are positive, proud and motivated.  Just unfocused and without leadership.


Leadership and business development;
We took a couple big shots at it with Kimberly-Clark and Whirlpool.  I bet other companies have looked at that and said, ...meh.  We gave with one hand and took with the other.  We still have more and better technology companies in Tulsa area than OKC, even though we have been losing out somewhat. (Bed Check, Murphy Company - these type places being taken over by out of state owners.)

But OKC has lost a ton of stuff, starting with GM.  Hitachi has reduced its presence dramatically.  OKC had to buy the old GM plant and give it to the Air Force to attempt to bribe them into staying.  (I don't think they would have left anyway, but that was one of the selling points given by that admired city/county leadership.)

I absolutely agree we can do better.  Have been harping about that to family/friends for 40 years.  And now in the last decade or so, we seem to be doing so.  Downtown has always been a special place to me since I spent so much time there when young.  For so long, nothing got better - in fact during "urban renewal" it got horribly worse, losing so many of the old buildings just to get a replica World Trade Center.  Water under bridge.



My post was simply suggesting that we look at the cities that have great things going on (the grown up cities) and work to implement the things that accommodate their progress.

We can do better. You guys are acting like the parents of the "C" student who don't want the teacher to use red ink while grading papers. You can love your "C" student. Just don't pretend that student is perfect. It hurts you both. Red ink serves a valuable purpose sometimes....and often times hurt feelings lead to improvement.



I agree completely with that.  And the list of cities to study/emulate.  When you go to those places for the main attraction, you can always look around and find neat little corners where there are points of interest that give an overall ambience that creates interest.  Quirky little shops.  Oddball little hole-in-the-wall restaurants.  Strange people - yeah, even like that bicycle guy (Tay??).  Stuff that builds a character in the area.  (How about a troll under the Union train station area?  Oh, wait, Seattle already has that.  Something off the wall like that.)

Oh, yeah.  Basic amenities.  We have all wondered how Richard Daley (father) ran Chicago for so long.  Well he took his 10% off the top, but you got fire dept., police protection, water, sewer, trash disappeared, and roads!  (Now, not so much as before...)  We struggle (and fail) every day with roads.  We have good fire and police and water - but all badly mistreated by the regimes we have put in place for a long time.  Sewer and trash are ok, but very much works in progress with much work needed. (I agree with Blake pretty much down the line there.)

And no trolley since the 50s.  I remember riding on the trolley from north Harvard to downtown as a kid.  It was a blast for me.  But then GM pulled their "destroy the public transportation" move and we all had to buy cars instead.

One thing Blake mentions is closing streets to vehicular traffic.  I was in Memphis last week and while the place as a whole is a huge mess, the famous Beal Street is closed much of the time for pedestrian use.  Pretty clever, I thought.  But then, parking is catastrophic.  Kind of like Tulsa.  Ok, actually much worse, but ours still sucks.

[DTowner]

You really do have a good take on the issues and I agree with your entire post with the exception of one point.  The citizens didn't fail on the River Tax, the City Of Tulsa's leadership failed.

Here's the mistakes:

1) There was never a reason for the county to lead on that project other than the mistaken notion that people in Collinsville, Owasso, Broken Arrow, Bixby, Sperry, etc. would vote for such a Tulsa-centric project because they helped pass Vision 2025.  Tulsa got the lions share of that project however each community and each demographic has benefitted from V-2025 funds.  Everyone in the county got something out of it.

2) I've never been clear if Mr. Kaiser approached the county with his gift or they approached him.  At any rate, it was a huge mistake letting Randi Miller take the lead on it.  She was already embroiled in controversy over the handling of Bell's lease and many of us more cynical types assumed she was little more than a puppet for former commissioner Bob Dick, whom many thought was incredibly corrupt.

3) In the haste to get a tax grab from the voters, they put together an incredibly sloppy plan without even knowing if the USACE could permit parts of the plan on the waterway itself as crucial studies would not be completed until AFTER we voted for this package.

4) The marketing on this sucked.  Many people when polled still thought this was The Channels project which had been proposed the year before.  As well, many potential yes votes were put off by ads featuring children who were pleading as if there was no future for them if we didn't approve this tax package.

5) There was little accountability built into the proposal to ensure we would get any or even most of what was promised in the package.

6) There were certain individuals who would profit handsomely from the deal without regard for how much taxpayers were being put on the hook for it.  Namely the concrete plant property.  If IIRC, the city or county would pay $50 million for the concrete plant and turn it over to a developer for around $5mm.  I believe that patch of land is around 5 acres.  I'm sorry, but I don't think even property on Rodeo Blvd. or Vail Village sells for $10mm an acre.  That was ludicrus.

7) There was property to the south of the 21st St. bridge which the city promised it would jettison if we approved the OneTech purchase along with some other city properties.  As predicted, that M & E center is still there and to my knowledge not one job transferred from that facility to OneTech.  The proposed move of the maintenance operations to the old Downtown Airpark was scrubbed when that was sold to the Osage Tribe for little or nothing.

The proposal came about four years after V-2025.  The arena was not finished yet, we'd not gotten promised improvements on Zink Lake at that point.  Basically no one was appreciating great results out of V-2025 at that point.
Our streets were in deplorable condition.  It was obvious we weren't taking care of basic in frastructure needs prior to
asking for more funds for infrastructure wants.

9) Along those lines, OKC has had clear projects in mind with MAPS and it's been done in stages, each new stage coming up as a former one comes to completion if I understand correctly.  OKC's sales tax rate, even with MAPS, I believe is about the same as Tulsa's if not slightly less.  It may have been a really poor calculation to have assigned the river program as a sales tax rather than as bonds or a property tax.  There again, I don't pretend to be an expert on powers the county has to raise revenue.

While I definitely appreciate the gesture Mr. Kaiser made, many really felt the conditional nature of it was a ransom.  As well, many people who use River Parks for recreation and exercise appreciate the open green spaces without a bunch of commercial clutter. 

People kept talking about the canals in OKC and San Antonio as models for what Tulsa's river development should look like.  There's simply no comparison.  The Arkansas river is about 1/4 mile wide at Zink Lake.  It's not even the same scale.  A far better use of development funds would be opening Elm Creek near the Pearl or on the south end of downtown if people want a walkable commercial area with a water feature.

The voters didn't fail on this one.  The city failed by not taking the lead on the issue, had they done that, IIRC the vote would have passed. As well the city and county both have a history of not delivering on promises to voters as well as mismanaging the funds they do have.

I always look forward to reading your posts and wish you had more time to contribute here.  As one of the leading figures of downtown redevelopment it's always great to hear your viewpoint.

I agree the rejection of the River Project is really not a fair criticism of Tulsa and its attitude towards progress.  While all of Conan's points are good, I think # 8 was the most critical in its rejection - it simply came too soon after the V2025 vote.  Most voters who supported V2025 did so based on desparation and/or hope.  When the river vote came along, the BOK Center (unquestionably the centerpiece of V2025) was not yet completed and may not have even been started.  Tulsa County voters had taken a chance with V2025 but had not yet seen any of the predicted successes come to fruition.  There were still a lot of critics saying the BOK would be a White Elephant that would not only fail, but drag down the whole city with it.  There was no tangible evidence to point to that the critics were wrong. 

[Conan71]

HPA, I thought the city already owned the GM plant as a part of a convoluted arrangement to get GM to OKC in the first place.  I believe that's the space Boeing is putting 500 jobs into.

[Red Arrow]

And no trolley since the 50s.  I remember riding on the trolley from north Harvard to downtown as a kid.  It was a blast for me.  But then GM pulled their "destroy the public transportation" move and we all had to buy cars instead.

Most of Tulsa's trolleys were gone by the mid-30s due to GM, Firestone, and Standard Oil (National City Lines).  The Sand Springs trolley ran until the 50s.