Grow Up Tulsa (Blake Ewing)

[akupetsky]

An interesting response to Blake Ewing's blog:

http://tulsatightwire.blogspot.com/

[heironymouspasparagus]

This came up this morning about Edmond.  We don't need another Italian eatery, but a glassblowing studio would be very cool.  If it could stay in business.  Have thought about doing a little woodworking studio thing, but the economics just can't get there from here.

Bring a little piece of Silver Dollar City to the area.

http://newsok.com/edmond-getting-glassblowing-studio-italian-eatery/article/3557767

[carltonplace]

An interesting response to Blake Ewing's blog:

http://tulsatightwire.blogspot.com/

The blogger is one of our Tulsa Now members.

[TheArtist]

An interesting response to Blake Ewing's blog:

http://tulsatightwire.blogspot.com/

I think the blogger took things too literally.  I too caught the line about "a few negative voices" and could have spent time disagreeing with that.  But I understood what Blake was getting at over all, what he was trying to say, what his words meant to him versus me nitpicking and focusing on one misspoken sentence and going on for paragraphs about it.   Blake himself has been one of those dissenting, but positive, voices trying to create change. What I think he was getting at was that over all our city has a negativity slant.  From the top down the predominant tone is downbeat and negative.  There are positive voices trying to get positive things done, but, when the over all tone is negative, it seems like those few negative folk who are speaking out then become the main, amplified voices.  Its most of what you hear.  

When you do hear the positive voices and projects, they are drowned out by the constant, constant, never ending drumbeat of (I hate Tulsa, this city sucks, there is nothing to do, our government is horrible, downtown is nasty, Tulsa is full of crime, our roads are horrible, the suburbs are much better why live in Tulsa, the schools are terrible, the fighting in City Hall).

Diversity of voices,,,, I am all for it.  Great to hear the negative dissenters.  But when the major tone of the city and most of what you hear is negative whining, sprinkled with a few diverse, positive notes here and there,,, thats when I think one might justifiably say something is different with Tulsa compared to the apparent prevailing pride you see in other cities like OKC for instance. Sure OKC has its naysayers, and thats great, but they aren't the main voice and attitude present in the city like they are here. I think we do need a positive champion in City Hall.  I would love to see a monthly news conference where the Mayor and Councilors are up there together, championing some positive news thats happening in the city. Start turning around the constant negative tone and start creating a positive one by pointing out things we can feel proud of. Whatever the cause or the cure, or even the reality, the over all tone is negative compared with other cities I have been in.  And that hurts us. Thats a reality imo.  A reality that then creates even more negativity and so on. Any change can be difficult and met with opposition, but it can be even more of an uphill battle in a negative, naysayer environment, to make positive changes happen.

I have an "I love Tulsa" t-shirt.  Honestly, I have had more people laugh at it and say "Why?" than have said "Hey, nice shirt."  In many places in our city its almost like you can't say something positive about the city yourself for fear of having to then listen to the negative responses and you having to JUSTIFY your position.  Thats not normal in most cities we admire. I can't imagine anyone here really expects us to believe that?  Sure, again, every city has its negative naysayers.  But the over all balance here IS very negative.     

[TheTed]

This came up this morning about Edmond.  We don't need another Italian eatery, but a glassblowing studio would be very cool.  If it could stay in business.  Have thought about doing a little woodworking studio thing, but the economics just can't get there from here.

Bring a little piece of Silver Dollar City to the area.

http://newsok.com/edmond-getting-glassblowing-studio-italian-eatery/article/3557767

There's a glassblowing studio on Brady, near Caz's. You can have them help you make something. You might be able to watch from the patio at Caz's Chowhouse, not sure about the view from there.

[heironymouspasparagus]

TheTed,
I will go find them.  Thanks!
Love to watch glassblowing.  Would like to try it myself, but way too many other 'projects'.


Artist,
I get to (have to?) spend quite a bit of time in lower OKC.  (From about Bass Pro Shop to Norman is normal traffic area for a few days a week, most weeks.)  I hear a lot of whining there.  Haven't found an equivalent forum to this one, but talking to people is kind of like talking to Tulsans.  But then, like I said before, I don't hob nob with anyone of importance like the movers and shakers.

Maybe living in Crossroads Mall area (Valley Brook) shapes a persons mindset in a different way from the richer parts of town.  I do have a friend from childhood who lives in OKC and loves it, so it ain't all griping.  But I am not sure why?

[Hoss]

TheTed,
I will go find them.  Thanks!
Love to watch glassblowing.  Would like to try it myself, but way too many other 'projects'.


Artist,
I get to (have to?) spend quite a bit of time in lower OKC.  (From about Bass Pro Shop to Norman is normal traffic area for a few days a week, most weeks.)  I hear a lot of whining there.  Haven't found an equivalent forum to this one, but talking to people is kind of like talking to Tulsans.  But then, like I said before, I don't hob nob with anyone of importance like the movers and shakers.

okctalk.com?

[heironymouspasparagus]

Thanks Hoss.  (You could probably tell I haven't spent a lot of time looking for one either.  Have been going by word of mouth.)  This place keeps me busy trying to keep up.

[SXSW]

I have an "I love Tulsa" t-shirt.  Honestly, I have had more people laugh at it and say "Why?" than have said "Hey, nice shirt."  In many places in our city its almost like you can't say something positive about the city yourself for fear of having to then listen to the negative responses and you having to JUSTIFY your position.  Thats not normal in most cities we admire. I can't imagine anyone here really expects us to believe that?  Sure, again, every city has its negative naysayers.  But the over all balance here IS very negative.    

That is very true.  When I was in Denver I never heard anyone say anything bad about it and all I heard was praise.  It was almost annoying.  In Tulsa there is very little praise but instead constant bemoaning about the city's problems.  Even by people heavily invested in the community.  I asked a relative who is a long-time OKC resident if this was once the case there and he said yes, and it was probably much worse.  People absolutely hated their city and were leaving it to rot and die.  If any of you had been in OKC before the late 90's you can remember what it was like.  Tulsa is in nowhere near the same condition, and in fact many parts of the city look better than ever.  Yet people are still so down...I don't get it.  

I have known two people who were from Tulsa and lived here and moved to OKC because it was "more exciting".  I never thought I would see that, yet here we are.  I don't think all of it can be traced back to ineffective city government but most of it can.  That is why we need another Vision 2025 so citizens can come together and rally around something.  Or even a city-backed commitment to the Pearl District (canal/streetscape/flood control improvements) with the grassroots efforts being seeded by ordinary people with the Street Cred event this weekend.  A mix of public and private funds for the greater good of an urban neighborhood..

[Hoss]

Thanks Hoss.  (You could probably tell I haven't spent a lot of time looking for one either.  Have been going by word of mouth.)  This place keeps me busy trying to keep up.

There are some common posters between here and there.  Some of them get bent out of shape when we start harping on the hole down the pike.

[SXSW]

I'll add I think a lot of people in Tulsa don't realize how nice a place it really is, and how well economically we are doing compared to most cities right now.  I saw this today where Tulsa is ranked in the Top 10 in small business vitality i.e. the market that is most condusive to the creation and development of small businesses.  Tulsa is ranked #6 between Seattle and Raleigh (OKC is #2, Austin is #1).

http://www.bizjournals.com/bizjournals/on-numbers/scott-thomas/2011/04/austin-tops-small-business-rankings.html#

[Conan71]

TheTed,
I will go find them.  Thanks!
Love to watch glassblowing.  Would like to try it myself, but way too many other 'projects'.


Artist,
I get to (have to?) spend quite a bit of time in lower OKC.  (From about Bass Pro Shop to Norman is normal traffic area for a few days a week, most weeks.)  I hear a lot of whining there.  Haven't found an equivalent forum to this one, but talking to people is kind of like talking to Tulsans.  But then, like I said before, I don't hob nob with anyone of importance like the movers and shakers.

Maybe living in Crossroads Mall area (Valley Brook) shapes a persons mindset in a different way from the richer parts of town.  I do have a friend from childhood who lives in OKC and loves it, so it ain't all griping.  But I am not sure why?

I'm somewhat of a dual resident of Midwest City and Tulsa these days and admit I'm largely detached from the government goings on in OKC.  It could be that their city manager, mayor, and council all get along so famously that KTOK and the Oklahoman have nothing to report on, or perhaps that when I'm in the OKC area, I'm focused on FMC and don't waste time on the news.  When I'm here by myself during the week I have nothing better to do than be bothered by the goings on of our pathetic government here to keep my mind off the fact I'm not with Future Mrs. Conan.

[JoeMommaBlake]

Thank you, William.

Perhaps I've been misunderstood. Hopefully I can clarify some things here.

My response to Michelle's response to my blog post....

1. When I used the term "same page", I did not mean I want or expect all of our elected officials to agree about everything. It meant that I'd like them to stop trying to sue each other and ouster each other from their elected offices and focus on making Tulsa better. We can ask our officials to be on that same page: making/keeping Tulsa great. I meant, simply, that I wanted them to grow up. If they were bickering over ideas and policymaking and zoning and planning, I'd be thrilled. Instead, I've heard tons of fighting over senseless things, and very little discussion over things that could mean progress. Michelle mentioned something about being alarmed by political systems in which we hear no dissent. When was the last time you heard the council upset with each other? Hasn't happened in a while. They've been united and focused on one thing - taking down the mayor and vice-versa. How that's part of a positive process is lost on me. Additionally, the insinuation that I think everyone should agree with me is also wrong. I have my opinions, but I'm well aware that the things I value are not the same as many of my fellow Tulsans and I'm not just okay with that, I like it. I think I even mentioned in my blog that our distinct parts of town and ways of thinking should stay that way, making us a better and more "grown-up" city. I don't like the burbs, but I get why people do and I think they should exist and thrive. I don't live in west Tulsa, but I'd love to see that area grow and develop in a way that's right for them. If there's anything on which I think everyone should agree with me, it's that we, as citizens, can do a much better job of stepping up and running for office, electing and appointing our leaders, and demanding maturity and big picture thinking from them. . . and to William's point, being positive about our hometown and what it can be.

2. I didn't suggest that other cities don't have squabbles. My comparison to those cities wasn't to say we should be another incarnation of them, but that we should look at some of the positive things they've done, and follow that example. I don't mean that we should try to copy their amenities, districts, etc., but that we should work to create attractions and accentuate our positives the way that they have.

3. Michelle's assertion that the Chinese student who stood up to the tank shares anything in common with the Tulsans who perpetually show up to TMAPC and council meetings to protest everything from fence heights to sign placements is off base and insulting. It's a crazy comparison used only to make a point. Our celebration of those in our community who love to argue is probably in some part responsible for our ridiculous code, our awful zoning, and our reputation as one of the most difficult places in the U.S. to get a permit. Pair that with elected and appointed officials who haven't had the courage or conviction to consider the bigger picture over the emotion of the moment, and you'll start to understand why our current rules exist. There's nothing at all wrong with disagreement. There's not even anything wrong with hyper-vigilance. It's when we allow those things to rule that we suffer. Unchecked preservationists, developers, fire marshalls, inspectors, city employees in the permit office, TMAPC members, etc all contribute to the problem. They all serve their purpose and should be asked to advocate for the specific interests of their groups, but we need to be able to count on our city leaders to be able to see the bigger picture and weigh all the costs. When I say "grown up city", I mean a city that, like good parents, knows what's best for its kids and makes decisions based on a more complete understanding of all of the factors. Sometimes parents really do know best. Kids tend to only see the moment. As a child, I didn't understand things that Mom and Dad did and their decisions didn't always make sense. They, however, had a different and more informed perspective. They cared about me and and guided me wisely to a better future. Our city leaders should be asked to do the same for us.

4. This is what Michelle wrote:
So then, how is Tulsa to "grow up" as Mr. Ewing implies? Part of the problem I see is the assumption that somehow great cities are "grown up." Cities, like people, should never be grown but should be constantly growing, changing and evolving. To "grow up" connotes an ending, not a process. What we need to determine is how we can continue evolving as a city instead of stagnating. While bickering is normal, it must move us forward, must produce new ideas and compromises. But it is actually the bickering that produces something new. Think of the city as a large chemical reaction: when the chemicals are frozen and still, they are the least likely to react. When heated, the atoms move quicker, badgering and bumping each other, until something new is formed. We need to figure out, not how to all get on the same page, but how the bumping and badgering will produce something new. I don't presume to know where our city needs to go; it will go where the entire city pushes it, and I am just one person in that process. But I do have some ideas of how people can help that process. Here are my suggestions.


Michelle is insinuating that "grown ups" have stopped growing. I'm not. "Grown up" doesn't connote an ending, it connotes someone who doesn't act like a child and who makes decisions based on "big picture thinking" mixed with logic and reason. I never suggested that we stop the process, but rather that we actually start engaging in it. What's happening now is so far away from useful that to call it anything but that is ludicrous. These "heated atoms" at city hall aren't forming anything, except a lack of hope and a discouraged citizenry. To call what's happening "bickering" is really understating it. I'd love to see some "bickering." What we've got is full on fighting.

At the end of her article, Michelle lists her ideas about how people can help the process. Those seem to be right in line with the types of things I've written on my blog over the last few months. The only thing I might take exception with there is her departing jab about grown-ups not being willing to try new things. I'm a grown up. I try new things.

While I think Michelle took my blog way too literally, I'm glad to have more voices in the conversation. I hope that all of us on this forum can avoid reading things through "Tulsa government eyes" which have a history of analyzing things from a "what can I argue with?" position, and instead try to understand the heart of things.

To her point, her response atomically pushed me to clarify my positions, hopefully to the benefit of other readers.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Conan,
I was reading through your note and could not figure out how FMC - Fat Mama Cheeseburger - related to your life.  Future Mrs. Conan made a WHOLE lot more sense when I got there.  Congratulations!!  Maybe she can straighten you out!!??

Ever since Mark Shannon died, the KTOK thing just hasn't had that psychotic RWRE rush you would expect!  Oh, well,...

Don't have time to read Joe's post now - sadly.  Will get back to it asap. 

[akupetsky]

I don't know, Blake, I think Michelle made a point that had to be made. 

As an initial matter, I think Tulsa is doing great.  I mean, just look at your restaurant and the McNellie's group, ONEOK stadium, the BOK Center, the River Parks and everything coming down the pike.  I've never been more excited about Tulsa - and I'm spreading the word to my colleagues and friends around the country. 

Has the city been seriously injured by the squabbling over power plays by the Mayor and the City Council?  Recall that the city recently adopted the new Comprehensive Plan, on which everyone stacked hands.  And we are getting ready to work on zoning code amendments to implement it.  I don't see the sqabbling interfering with these key steps in shaping our development.

As I recall, the fighting was about Mayoral decisions made early in this administration, dealing with firefighters and police.  Without taking sides, the fighting seems to have resulted from a failure to work together at the beginning.  Our system requires that the Mayor and City Council bargain and compromise.  If they don't, then each side can back themselves into a corner neither can get out of.  We don't need to change the system - we need some people to lower their back.

What will hurt Tulsa is if Tulsa's citizens are not brought along with Tulsa's progress.  When you say that development is being held up by naysayers, you are playing into a narrative that says that Tulsa is in such desperate shape that we must have development everywhere and at all costs.  The truth is that Tulsa needs development in accordance with the Comp Plan supported by the city's people and with due consideration to Tulsa's quality of life, including neighborhoods.  That means some conflict of ideas, and in the past that has led to demonization of those standing up to those who, ironically, use the "Tulsa sucks" mentality to push through their version of what Tulsa should be.

And, speaking of irony, your reaction to Michelle's China tank example could benefit from the same moderation you seek from the city.  Surely you understood it was an example of the way we appreciate the lone protester and not an attempt to equate the principles they stand for.