9 Things The Rich Don't Want You To Know About Taxes

[nathanm]

Aside from the really crummy road surface of 30 years, it would be interesting to see a comparison of $.  Do you happen to have one handy.  You write as though you do.

Not at hand. It's been some years since I cared enough to find references. I was trying to get my former city to spend a little extra up front on their massive road project and build some roads that would last. Didn't work, precisely because it's more expensive up front. Most everyone considers 20 or 30 years out as long enough to not be their problem.

[guido911]

A bit o/t, but there is this:

http://www.cracked.com/photoplasty_183_how-rich-secretly-amuse-themselves/

[Red Arrow]

Not at hand. It's been some years since I cared enough to find references. I was trying to get my former city to spend a little extra up front on their massive road project and build some roads that would last. Didn't work, precisely because it's more expensive up front. Most everyone considers 20 or 30 years out as long enough to not be their problem.

I agree that we don't put up-front money in to get a good product, whether it be concrete or asphalt.  Also, 20 to 30 years is someone else's problem.  That brings us back to where this diversion started.  Our infrastructure costs at least appear low because we don't build the quality infrastructure to begin with and then don't maintain it.  We wind up with junk and an expensive rebuild that we borrow money to build.

[Conan71]

The bulk of the preventative maint. here is done with slurry seal, or fog seal, and it's not only done here in the valley area, but is used on all of the highways throughout the state including up in the snow country area.

http://www.southwestslurryseal.com/


Fog seal:

Slurry seal:

You also don't get massive ice storms or prolonged freezing temps in the valley, so I'm sure that helps.  At least that's a part of the excuse we get here as to why our asphalt comes apart so easily.

[Gaspar]

Travel anywhere in the zone 6/7 transition where there is HOT,COLD,HOT,COLD temps with 30 degree shifts in 24 hour periods, and you will find the exact same problem with asphalt as we have in Tulsa.

It's not the heat, and it's not the cold.  It's the shift from hot to cold and vise versa where the temperature of the road skin may have a 30 degree difference from the asphalt layers just one or two inches below it.

[Hoss]

You also don't get massive ice storms or prolonged freezing temps in the valley, so I'm sure that helps.  At least that's a part of the excuse we get here as to why our asphalt comes apart so easily.

Humidity also comes into play there.  Since the humidity is, for the most part, low in Arizona, you don't worry so much about expansion/contraction cycles because the moisture there is not a lot.  At least not compared to here.

[dbacks fan]

This from Flagstaff is a good approximation of the annual snow fall in snow country.

http://www.flagstaffarizona.org/playing_winter_snow-facts.html

And in these area the temps ran from single digits to the 80' and some times 90's.

http://cpluhna.nau.edu/Places/mogollon_rim.htm

[Teatownclown]

How Would Jesus Do the Budget?

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2011/04/19/us/politics/AP-US-US-WikiLeaks-Army-Private.html?_r=4&hp

"The scriptures contain the concept of "the common good"—the things we commit to do as a society that benefit us all."

[guido911]

How Would Jesus Do the Budget?

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2011/04/19/us/politics/AP-US-US-WikiLeaks-Army-Private.html?_r=4&hp

"The scriptures contain the concept of "the common good"—the things we commit to do as a society that benefit us all."

Here is a fantastic "common good" story and tax dollars:

ORLANDO, Fla. – Florida officials are investigating an unemployment agency that spent public money to give 6,000 superhero capes to the jobless.

Workforce Central Florida spent more than $14,000 on the red capes as part of its "Cape-A-Bility Challenge" public relations campaign. The campaign featured a cartoon character, "Dr. Evil Unemployment," who needs to be vanquished.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110419/ap_on_re_us/us_capes_for_the_unemployed

[Conan71]

Here is a fantastic "common good" story and tax dollars:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110419/ap_on_re_us/us_capes_for_the_unemployed

That IS compassion Greedo.  They can use the capes as blankets when they sleep on park benches.

[Breadburner]

Freeze/Thaw is what kills us here.....Humidity has little to no effect on paved surface after they are placed.....

[heironymouspasparagus]

dbacks,
We NEVER use 18" of concrete.  It is always 10 to 12" for interstate construction.  Typical international airport runway thickness is around 18 to 24".

New I-26 in North Carolina.  And they have much better roads overall than we do.
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/pavement/concrete/mcl0205.pdf

All,
And our turnpikes are rock covered with 2" layer after 2" layer of asphalt.  Absolute crap.  (At least the road matches the overall concept of turnpike to begin with.)

[nathanm]

And our turnpikes are rock covered with 2" layer after 2" layer of asphalt.  Absolute crap.  (At least the road matches the overall concept of turnpike to begin with.)

No. I've seen the Cherokee and Muskogee turnpikes cut open and laid bare for all to see. That is not how they were constructed. Concrete on packed gravel in both cases. I don't recall the thickness well enough to make a comment on that. I believe ODOT's standards are online. It thought OTA's were as well, but I'm not as sure.

[Hoss]

Freeze/Thaw is what kills us here.....Humidity has little to no effect on paved surface after they are placed.....

Uhh..in order to have a freeze/thaw causing contraction/expansion on the order of what is needed, humidity DOES have effect.  You can freeze the air at 8 percent humidity verses 50 %.  Which is going thaw water out more.  Obviously not the 8 percent.

[heironymouspasparagus]

There are some that have the concrete.  Not the Turner or Will Rogers.  And asphalt will provide a little bit of smoothing to the surface for a couple years, but it just isn't worth it.  The Turner is always a mess - there are two work zones now, one at this end, one at other - building on/off at Luther.  And they just finished the latest 6 years of maintenance late last year.  Soon be time to close another 20 miles for resurfacing for 3 years.

Asphalt used here is just too soft for the massive truckloads that are allowed by OK.  You cannot have 150,000 lb trucks running on 12" of asphalt and expect anything different than what we get.  Lousy roads.