9 Things The Rich Don't Want You To Know About Taxes

[Cats Cats Cats]

Slightly higher, yes. Makes sense, given that they buy more things and own more things, thus pay more sales and property tax.

I need to look around for the graph, but the rich pay significantly less tax in proportion to their wealth than the middle class (and the lowest quintile, for that matter). You'll never hear that from the Wall Street Journal, of course.

Well "wealth" has already been taxed.  Obviously somebody make 1 million can save a lot more than somebody with 30k a year.  If we based it on wealth,  somebody who makes 30k a year would be taxed more because they save more money vs a 30ker who spends it all.   Of course the person who spends it all is getting the economy moving more.  Until they retire and we have to pay for everything.

[guido911]

I doubt Guido is rich enough to have a substantial portion of his income coming from stocks/dividends.  Correct me if I'm wrong. 

Spot on Sheen. Heiron is among those that think all of the "rich" should be treated the same. And dammit I'm jealous over your GE investment.  

[Cats Cats Cats]

Spot on Sheen. Heiron is among those that think all of the "rich" should be treated the same. And dammit I'm jealous over your GE investment.  

Well, I am saying the rich should all be treated the same.  In that I shouldn't get a 20% tax cut because I have stock dividends.  I am fine with the increased risk creating some benefit.  But I feel that 20% is just too much.  Bring it up with 23% and I would be happy.  People who work for their money or own a business shouldn't get screwed because they work for their money instead of getting it from investments.

On Ge, It wasn't much    Spent the rest on a business investment.

[JeffM]

I doubt it too.  Social Security benefits are also down in the noise compared to the rest of his income. The point is that he be paid them and his benefits are based on the first $106,800 of his income, not his total income.  For most of us, the payroll tax represents more of our total income but so will our SS benefits.

Because the whole story about how it got there is not included.  Rates went up some but the amount of income subject to the tax also went up from somewhere around $20,000 to $106,800.

Tax table info from the 2008 Form 1040 instruction booklet.

...and those benefits are going to paid out higher for people making $106k than the folks making $20k..... everybody gets a statement once a year with an estimate of what benefits will be.... nobody gets rich off of social security, but the idea is that nobody is forced to eat cat food and sell everything they own at the end of their lives either... George W. Bush tried to privatize social security while the program was running a HUGE surplus from the time Reagan raised my payroll taxes.... go figure.  

Maximum Taxable Earnings Each Year
1937 - 50   $ 3,000
1951 - 54      3,600
1955 - 58      4,200
1959 - 65      4,800
1966 - 67      6,600
1968 - 71      7,800
1972             9,000
1973           10,800
1974           13,200
1975           14,100
1976           15,300
1977           16,500
1978           17,700
1979           22,900
1980           25,900
1981           29,700
1982         $32,400
1983           35,700
1984           37,800
1985           39,600
1986           42,000
1987           43,800
1988           45,000
1989           48,000
1990           51,300
1991           53,400
1992           55,500
1993           57,600
1994           60,600
1995           61,200
1996           62,700
1997           65,400
1998          $68,400
1999           72,600
2000           76,200
2001           80,400
2002           84,900
2003           87,000
2004           87,900
2005           90,000
2006           94,200
2007           97,500
2008          102,000
2009          106,800
2010          106,800

[Red Arrow]

You know what i did with my free money a few years ago?  Bought GE stock.  Up 22%.. Good for me.. Oh, yeah the government got 0 tax revenue from them or me so far.  Bought some land too, at least the real estate agent made a few bucks of it.  

GE might (unlikely) be down 22% next year.  Do you think you (or a really rich person) should be taxed on unrealized gains?  Same with your land purchase. Yep, the agent gets their cut, same as a stock broker etc.  They make money whether you do or not.  Not something I like but that's the way it is.

[guido911]

  People who work for their money or own a business shouldn't get screwed because they work for their money instead of getting it from investments.

I cannot argue at all with that. Folks who moronically think that ALL "rich" people get paid by investment money have zero clue about reality. Those people are just boring parrots.

[Red Arrow]

...and those benefits are going to paid out higher for people making $106k than the folks making $20k..... everybody gets a statement once a year with an estimate of what benefits will be.... nobody gets rich off of social security, but the idea is that nobody is forced to eat cat food and sell everything they own at the end of their lives either... George W. Bush tried to privatize social security while the program was running a HUGE surplus from the time Reagan raised my payroll taxes.... go figure.  

I agree that privatization of SS was a bad idea.  What is your problem with someone paying in at rates based on $106,800/year getting more benefits than someone paying in at rates based on $20K/year as long as no one has to eat cat food?

[Red Arrow]

Slightly higher, yes. Makes sense, given that they buy more things and own more things, thus pay more sales and property tax.

I need to look around for the graph, but the rich pay significantly less tax in proportion to their wealth than the middle class (and the lowest quintile, for that matter).

Then why did you post the graph you did?

[Red Arrow]

Well "wealth" has already been taxed.  Obviously somebody make 1 million can save a lot more than somebody with 30k a year.  If we based it on wealth,  somebody who makes 30k a year would be taxed more because they save more money vs a 30ker who spends it all.   Of course the person who spends it all is getting the economy moving more.  Until they retire and we have to pay for everything.

And the guy that made $1M and saved more will be more likely to spend more in retirement and keep the economy going.  Maybe we should tax all interest income at less than earned income to give the small time saver a break.  More tax code....

[guido911]

 What is your problem with someone paying in at rates based on $106,800/year getting more benefits than someone paying in at rates based on $20K/year as long as no one has to eat cat food?

It's soccer boy. In his mind, the evil rich are always getting over at his expense.

[JeffM]

Why does that matter? Half our country pays no federal income tax and you seem more interested in why rather than why not? I am going to ask for the last time, is it "fair" that 47% of this country pays no fed income taxes? Sheen showed fortitude and answered.

And, is it right that those paying nothing demand that those paying should pay more?

Yes, because they count as ONE VOTE per person in a civilized democracy... (not 5 votes per landowner or 1/3 of a vote for a slave or indentured servant)...

Yawn.

And again, YES, because we have a modern progressive federal tax system in this country which has been around for decades.... it means a full time college student or a working mom with 3 kids isn't going to pay the same rate of taxes I pay..... and I shouldn't be paying the same rate as someone who makes TEN TIMES THE MONEY I DO.....

http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/history-of-federal-individual-1.html

http://www.forbes.com/2010/04/15/subsidies-income-tax-transparency-opinions-tax-day-10-contributors-len-burman.html

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2010/04/47-of-tea-partiers-pay-no-federal-income-taxes/38924/

[Cats Cats Cats]

And the guy that made $1M and saved more will be more likely to spend more in retirement and keep the economy going.  Maybe we should tax all interest income at less than earned income to give the small time saver a break.  More tax code....

20 or 30 years from now doesn't help us today.

[nathanm]

Then why did you post the graph you did?

Because it was easily at hand and clearly shows that guido (and his..sources) is talking nonsense when he claims that poor people pay no tax in a lame attempt to justify his class warfare.

[Cats Cats Cats]

Because it was easily at hand and clearly shows that guido (and his..sources) is talking nonsense when he claims that poor people pay no tax in a lame attempt to justify his class warfare.

While they are paying into social security and medicaire.  They are supposed to be paying for themselves.  You are correct in that a greater proportion of their income will go towards sales tax that the higher brackets.

[Red Arrow]

Because it was easily at hand and clearly shows that guido (and his..sources) is talking nonsense when he claims that poor people pay no tax in a lame attempt to justify his class warfare.

Unfortunately (?) it also shows that the rich are paying taxes in a reasonable proportion to their income.